From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Sat Dec 01 16:21:42 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 20269 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2007 16:21:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Dec 2007 16:21:32 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 20166 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2007 16:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 Dec 2007 16:21:26 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug-announce@phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 20133 invoked by uid 107); 1 Dec 2007 16:21:24 -0000 Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.179) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 11:21:24 -0500 Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id v33so3377197wah for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.191.2 with SMTP id o2mr1143286wff.1196526077869; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 08:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.2.7 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:21:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <13ae6a200712010821w17543a86xe48bbc90c80cd4d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:21:16 -0500 From: "Elizabeth Bevilacqua" To: plug-announce@phillylinux.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: plug-announce@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Subject: [PLUG] [plug-announce] December 5th, 2007: "What's a file?" presented by Mark Jason Dominus X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Announcements , Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org ._____. .__________________________________________________________________. | ._. | | .______________________________________________________________. | | |_| |_|_|___. _____ | | |___| |_____. | The Philadelphia Area Linux Users Group | ._. | | | .___|_|_| |_| | (PLUG) cordially invites you to our next .___| |_|_|_| | | ._____| |___| meeting, Wednesday, December 5th, 2007 | ._| |_______| | | | |_| | at The University of the Sciences in | |_|_|_| |___. | | |_____| Philadelphia, Pennsylvania |_______| |_. | | |______________________________________________________________| | | |_| | |__________________________________________________________________| |_____| The title of this month's meeting is "What's a file?" and is being presented by Mark Jason Dominus. MJD explains: "In this talk, I'll explain the fundamentals of how files work under Linux. I'll show how files can have multiple names, and what the difference is between a hard link and a symbolic link. I'll explain the mystery column in the output of "ls -l" and why you can delete a file that you don't own." Mark Jason Dominus is the author of "Higher-Order Perl: Transforming Programs with Programs". Our regular December speaker, he has given several excellent talks in the past, including "History of Classic Unix Security Holes" and "Internals of the qmail mail system". You don't want to miss this! The meeting will take place from 7-9pm at: University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (USP) Griffith Hall C 600 South 43rd Street Philadelphia, PA 19104-4495 USP is located in University City. Driving directions are available at , or , both of which have an aerial view of the campus buildings. USP is also easily accessible by public transportation. There will be an open Question & Answer session at 7PM, prior to the main presentation at 8PM. This is an open meeting; all are welcome, and encouraged to attend. Usually, a number of members get together after the meeting at a nearby restaurant for food and perhaps a beer or two. Come join the camaraderie! _______________________________________________ plug-announce mailing list plug-announce@lists.phillylinux.org http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Sun Dec 02 04:25:17 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 28037 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2007 04:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Dec 2007 04:25:16 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-PLUG@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 28013 invoked by uid 107); 2 Dec 2007 04:25:13 -0000 Received: from crompton.com (HELO bridget.crompton.com) (207.245.69.226) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:25:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by bridget.crompton.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id lB24P9v03997 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:25:09 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: Doug Crompton To: Phila Linux Users Group Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [PLUG] Boot Problem X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org I am still playing with this Hitahi laptop - 32 meg ram and 1 GB hardrive. I kinda gave up on DSL and Kunbuntu. They both just seem to hang after it gets most of the way through the boot. I loaded slackware 12.0 and it works better but still will not boot. I am using lilo and installing to the MBR. I have a 64 meg swap partition and the rest is one partition for linux - about 1gb. When booting it find and loads the kernel from the HD but I am getting kernel messages like - udevd-event[2083]: udev_node_mknode: mknode(/dev/vcc/1, 020660,7,1) failed: no such file or directory Lots of messages like that... Any ideas? The same kernel (I think) boots fine from CD - called huge.s Doug **************************** * Doug Crompton * * Richboro, PA 18954 * * 215-431-6307 * * * * doug@crompton.com * * http://www.crompton.com * **************************** ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Sun Dec 02 04:32:00 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 31627 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2007 04:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Dec 2007 04:32:00 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 31590 invoked by uid 107); 2 Dec 2007 04:31:57 -0000 Received: from email2.gra-inc.com (HELO gra-inc.com) (67.62.29.206) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:31:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=gra-inc.com; s=MDaemon; t=1196569794; x=1197174594; q=dns/txt; h=Received: Received:Date:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Message-ID:Reply-To; bh=MiVbUvxqSMcOa6GJKZGjWPYQWb+nTSGoRoUwj1ms Gyc=; b=akjGp9n13ECj0aG1rzmHPA+wajOfiy9PikTyS3Rp5wpo8DMfBoe/VkOu wivfnrZBN7D1hElwRnCnWmefDtClCtf4BzPeWUFWhnrKPd9Km2NofodCm6R8wLzJ 6YgB00S0HFQbJuM9KYWx1I5HsBIDrgPyf4z6Nje45t1jEX0ZAYg= Received: from WorldClient by gra-inc.com (MDaemon PRO v9.6.2) with ESMTP id 45-md50000119643.msg for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:29:46 -0500 Received: from [72.94.208.72] by gra-inc.com via WorldClient with HTTP; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:29:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:29:40 -0500 From: "Greg Helledy" To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: X-Mailer: WorldClient 9.6.2 X-Authenticated-Sender: gregsonh@gra-inc.com X-Spam-Processed: gra-inc.com, Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:29:46 -0500 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-Return-Path: gregsonh@gra-inc.com X-Envelope-From: gregsonh@gra-inc.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-MDAV-Processed: gra-inc.com, Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:29:54 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] Debian security update breaks OpenGL X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: gregsonh@gra-inc.com, Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org I am running Kanotix 2005-4 which I pointed to Debian Etch as soon as it came out. Everything ran smoothly for many months but this week I realized I'd never added a line in /etc/apt/sources.list to take advantage of security updates now that I was on Debian stable. There were quite a few and everything seemed to go fine. However, anything that requires OpenGL causes X to crash, so when it restarts I'm at a login screen. It's not just starting an OpenGL game, if I fire up KInfoCenter and click on the OpenGL icon I get the same result. I also get an error "Failed to construct OpenGL rendering backend" when starting my 3D-enabled VMware image, which didn't happen before the update. I pulled the section of /var/log/dpkg.log to see which packages were updated. Nothing is jumping out at me as something that would be, or be related to, OpenGL. It's pretty verbose so I've stripped it down to a list of packages, each repeated 3 times (oldversion, olversion newversion, newversion). Sorry the list is so long. The only one on the list that looked obvious to me for a downgrade was xserver-xorg-core, but that didn't do it. The same thing happens in icewm so it's not KDE-related. Can anyone tell me which of any of these would be worth trying to downgrade? Failing that, what should I try next? Thanks, Greg Helledy bcrelay 1.3.0-2etch1 bcrelay 1.3.0-2etch1 1.3.0-2etch2 bcrelay 1.3.0-2etch2 bochsbios 2.3-2 bochsbios 2.3-2 2.3-2etch1 bochsbios 2.3-2etch1 cupsys 1.2.7-4 cupsys 1.2.7-4 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys-bsd 1.2.7-4 cupsys-bsd 1.2.7-4 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys-bsd 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys-client 1.2.7-4 cupsys-client 1.2.7-4 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys-client 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys-common 1.2.7-4 cupsys-common 1.2.7-4 1.2.7-4etch1 cupsys-common 1.2.7-4etch1 dhcp-client 2.0pl5-19.5 dhcp-client 2.0pl5-19.5 2.0pl5-19.5etch2 dhcp-client 2.0pl5-19.5etch2 dnsutils 1:9.3.4-2 dnsutils 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 dnsutils 1:9.3.4-2etch1 evolution-data-server 1.6.3-5 evolution-data-server 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 evolution-data-server 1.6.3-5etch1 evolution-data-server-common 1.6.3-5 evolution-data-server-common 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 evolution-data-server-common 1.6.3-5etch1 file 4.17-5etch2 file 4.17-5etch2 4.17-5etch3 file 4.17-5etch3 firefox 2.0.0.3-1 firefox 2.0.0.3-1 2.0.0.6+2.0.0.8-0etch1 firefox 2.0.0.6+2.0.0.8-0etch1 gimp 2.2.13-1etch1 gimp 2.2.13-1etch1 2.2.13-1etch4 gimp 2.2.13-1etch4 gimp-data 2.2.13-1etch1 gimp-data 2.2.13-1etch1 2.2.13-1etch4 gimp-data 2.2.13-1etch4 iceape-browser 1.0.11~pre071022-0etch1 iceape-browser 1.0.9-0etch1 iceape-browser 1.0.9-0etch1 1.0.11~pre071022-0etch1 iceape-mailnews 1.0.11~pre071022-0etch1 iceape-mailnews 1.0.9-0etch1 iceape-mailnews 1.0.9-0etch1 1.0.11~pre071022-0etch1 icedove 1.5.0.12.dfsg1-0etch1 icedove 1.5.0.12.dfsg1-0etch1 1.5.0.13+1.5.0.14b.dfsg1-0etch1 icedove 1.5.0.13+1.5.0.14b.dfsg1-0etch1 iceweasel 2.0.0.3-1 iceweasel 2.0.0.3-1 2.0.0.6+2.0.0.8-0etch1 iceweasel 2.0.0.6+2.0.0.8-0etch1 kamera 4:3.5.5-3 kamera 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kamera 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kappfinder 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kappfinder 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kappfinder 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kate 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kate 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kate 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kcontrol 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kcontrol 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kcontrol 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdebase 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase-bin 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdebase-bin 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase-bin 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase-data 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdebase-data 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase-data 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase-kio-plugins 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdebase-kio-plugins 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdebase-kio-plugins 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdegraphics-kfile-plugins 4:3.5.5-3 kdegraphics-kfile-plugins 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kdegraphics-kfile-plugins 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kdepasswd 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdepasswd 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdepasswd 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdeprint 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdeprint 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdeprint 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdesktop 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdesktop 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdesktop 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdm 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kdm 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kdm 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kfax 4:3.5.5-3 kfax 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kfax 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kfind 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kfind 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kfind 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kghostview 4:3.5.5-3 kghostview 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kghostview 4:3.5.5-3etch2 khelpcenter 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 khelpcenter 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 khelpcenter 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kicker 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kicker 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kicker 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 klipper 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 klipper 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 klipper 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kmenuedit 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kmenuedit 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kmenuedit 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 konqueror 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 konqueror 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 konqueror 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 konqueror-nsplugins 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 konqueror-nsplugins 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 konqueror-nsplugins 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 konsole 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 konsole 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 konsole 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kooka 4:3.5.5-3 kooka 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kooka 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kpager 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kpager 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kpager 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kpdf 4:3.5.5-3 kpdf 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kpdf 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kpersonalizer 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kpersonalizer 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kpersonalizer 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksmserver 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 ksmserver 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksmserver 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksnapshot 4:3.5.5-3 ksnapshot 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 ksnapshot 4:3.5.5-3etch2 ksplash 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 ksplash 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksplash 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksvg 4:3.5.5-3 ksvg 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 ksvg 4:3.5.5-3etch2 ksysguard 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 ksysguard 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksysguard 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksysguardd 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 ksysguardd 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ksysguardd 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ktip 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 ktip 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ktip 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 ktorrent 2.0.3+dfsg1-2.2 ktorrent 2.0.3+dfsg1-2.2 2.0.3+dfsg1-2.2etch1 ktorrent 2.0.3+dfsg1-2.2etch1 kviewshell 4:3.5.5-3 kviewshell 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kviewshell 4:3.5.5-3etch2 kwin 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 kwin 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 kwin 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 libbind9-0 1:9.3.4-2 libbind9-0 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libbind9-0 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libcamel1.2-8 1.6.3-5 libcamel1.2-8 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libcamel1.2-8 1.6.3-5etch1 libcupsimage2 1.2.7-4 libcupsimage2 1.2.7-4 1.2.7-4etch1 libcupsimage2 1.2.7-4etch1 libcupsys2 1.2.7-4 libcupsys2 1.2.7-4 1.2.7-4etch1 libcupsys2 1.2.7-4etch1 libcurl3 7.15.5-1 libcurl3 7.15.5-1 7.15.5-1etch1 libcurl3 7.15.5-1etch1 libcurl3-gnutls 7.15.5-1 libcurl3-gnutls 7.15.5-1 7.15.5-1etch1 libcurl3-gnutls 7.15.5-1etch1 libdns22 1:9.3.4-2 libdns22 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libdns22 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libebook1.2-5 1.6.3-5 libebook1.2-5 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libebook1.2-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libecal1.2-6 1.6.3-5 libecal1.2-6 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libecal1.2-6 1.6.3-5etch1 libedata-book1.2-2 1.6.3-5 libedata-book1.2-2 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libedata-book1.2-2 1.6.3-5etch1 libedata-cal1.2-5 1.6.3-5 libedata-cal1.2-5 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libedata-cal1.2-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libedataserver1.2-7 1.6.3-5 libedataserver1.2-7 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libedataserver1.2-7 1.6.3-5etch1 libegroupwise1.2-10 1.6.3-5 libegroupwise1.2-10 1.6.3-5 1.6.3-5etch1 libegroupwise1.2-10 1.6.3-5etch1 libgimp2.0 2.2.13-1etch1 libgimp2.0 2.2.13-1etch1 2.2.13-1etch4 libgimp2.0 2.2.13-1etch4 libid3-3.8.3c2a 3.8.3-6 libid3-3.8.3c2a 3.8.3-6 3.8.3-6etch1 libid3-3.8.3c2a 3.8.3-6etch1 libisc11 1:9.3.4-2 libisc11 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libisc11 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libisccc0 1:9.3.4-2 libisccc0 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libisccc0 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libisccfg1 1:9.3.4-2 libisccfg1 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libisccfg1 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libkonq4 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 libkonq4 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 libkonq4 4:3.5.5a.dfsg.1-6etch1 libkrb53 1.4.4-7etch1 libkrb53 1.4.4-7etch1 1.4.4-7etch4 libkrb53 1.4.4-7etch4 libkscan1 4:3.5.5-3 libkscan1 4:3.5.5-3 4:3.5.5-3etch2 libkscan1 4:3.5.5-3etch2 liblwres9 1:9.3.4-2 liblwres9 1:9.3.4-2 1:9.3.4-2etch1 liblwres9 1:9.3.4-2etch1 libmagic1 4.17-5etch2 libmagic1 4.17-5etch2 4.17-5etch3 libmagic1 4.17-5etch3 libmozjs0d 1.8.0.12-0etch1 libmozjs0d 1.8.0.12-0etch1 1.8.0.14~pre071019b-0etch1 libmozjs0d 1.8.0.14~pre071019b-0etch1 libmysqlclient15off 5.0.32-7etch1 libmysqlclient15off 5.0.32-7etch1 5.0.32-7etch3 libmysqlclient15off 5.0.32-7etch3 libnspr4-0d 1.8.0.12-0etch1 libnspr4-0d 1.8.0.12-0etch1 1.8.0.14~pre071019b-0etch1 libnspr4-0d 1.8.0.14~pre071019b-0etch1 libnss3-0d 1.8.0.12-0etch1 libnss3-0d 1.8.0.12-0etch1 1.8.0.14~pre071019b-0etch1 libnss3-0d 1.8.0.14~pre071019b-0etch1 libpcre3 6.7-1 libpcre3 6.7-1 6.7+7.4-2 libpcre3 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openoffice.org-base 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-base 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-base 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-calc 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-calc 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-calc 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-common 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-common 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-common 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-core 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-core 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-core 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-draw 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-draw 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-draw 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-help-en-us 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-help-en-us 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-help-en-us 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-impress 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-impress 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-impress 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-java-common 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-java-common 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-java-common 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-kde 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-kde 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-kde 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-l10n-de 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-l10n-de 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-l10n-de 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-math 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-math 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-math 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-writer 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 openoffice.org-writer 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openoffice.org-writer 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 openssl 0.9.8c-4 openssl 0.9.8c-4 0.9.8c-4etch1 openssl 0.9.8c-4etch1 perl 5.8.8-7 perl 5.8.8-7 5.8.8-7etch1 perl 5.8.8-7etch1 perl-base 5.8.8-7 perl-base 5.8.8-7 5.8.8-7etch1 perl-base 5.8.8-7etch1 perl-modules 5.8.8-7 perl-modules 5.8.8-7 5.8.8-7etch1 perl-modules 5.8.8-7etch1 perl-suid 5.8.8-7 perl-suid 5.8.8-7 5.8.8-7etch1 perl-suid 5.8.8-7etch1 pptpd 1.3.0-2etch1 pptpd 1.3.0-2etch1 1.3.0-2etch2 pptpd 1.3.0-2etch2 python-uno 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 python-uno 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 python-uno 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 rsync 2.6.9-2 rsync 2.6.9-2 2.6.9-2etch1 rsync 2.6.9-2etch1 ruby1.8 1.8.5-4 ruby1.8 1.8.5-4 1.8.5-4etch1 ruby1.8 1.8.5-4etch1 samba 3.0.24-6etch4 samba 3.0.24-6etch4 3.0.24-6etch7 samba 3.0.24-6etch7 samba-common 3.0.24-6etch4 samba-common 3.0.24-6etch4 3.0.24-6etch7 samba-common 3.0.24-6etch7 smbclient 3.0.24-6etch4 smbclient 3.0.24-6etch4 3.0.24-6etch7 smbclient 3.0.24-6etch7 smbfs 3.0.24-6etch4 smbfs 3.0.24-6etch4 3.0.24-6etch7 smbfs 3.0.24-6etch7 tcpdump 3.9.5-2 tcpdump 3.9.5-2 3.9.5-2etch1 tcpdump 3.9.5-2etch1 tk8.4 8.4.12-1 tk8.4 8.4.12-1 8.4.12-1etch1 tk8.4 8.4.12-1etch1 ttf-opensymbol 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 ttf-opensymbol 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch1 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 ttf-opensymbol 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 vim 1:7.0-122+1etch2 vim 1:7.0-122+1etch2 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-common 1:7.0-122+1etch2 vim-common 1:7.0-122+1etch2 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-common 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-gtk 1:7.0-122+1etch2 vim-gtk 1:7.0-122+1etch2 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-gtk 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-gui-common 1:7.0-122+1etch2 vim-gui-common 1:7.0-122+1etch2 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-gui-common 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-runtime 1:7.0-122+1etch2 vim-runtime 1:7.0-122+1etch2 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vim-runtime 1:7.0-122+1etch3 vlc 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 vlc 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 vlc 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 vlc-nox 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 vlc-nox 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 vlc-nox 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 vlc-plugin-alsa 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 vlc-plugin-alsa 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 vlc-plugin-alsa 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 wxvlc 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 wxvlc 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 wxvlc 0.8.6-svn20061012.debian-5etch1 xnest 2:1.1.1-21 xnest 2:1.1.1-21 2:1.1.1-21etch1 xnest 2:1.1.1-21etch1 xpdf-common 3.01-9 xpdf-common 3.01-9 3.01-9etch1 xpdf-common 3.01-9etch1 xpdf-utils 3.01-9 xpdf-utils 3.01-9 3.01-9etch1 xpdf-utils 3.01-9etch1 xserver-xorg-core 2:1.1.1-21 xserver-xorg-core 2:1.1.1-21 2:1.1.1-21etch1 xserver-xorg-core 2:1.1.1-21etch1 -- Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and notify GRA, Inc. (postmaster@gra-inc.com) immediately. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information expressed in this message are not given or endorsed by GRA, Inc. unless otherwise indicated by an authorized representative independent of this message. ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Sun Dec 02 15:25:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 11296 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2007 15:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Dec 2007 15:25:22 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 11261 invoked by uid 107); 2 Dec 2007 15:25:18 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:25:18 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85ED35852C for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:25:15 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: couFdBNs+1qizlqjMLUuALJG++BnyCXf0VkfBFj8QaY9 1196609115 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6AA11359 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:25:15 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:25:05 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712021025.11284.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> Subject: [PLUG] And now for something completely different - An ON-TOPIC government-related post X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0657879091==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============0657879091== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1217208.icpDgmdA6m"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart1217208.icpDgmdA6m Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline =46or anyone interested in the (extremely important) software patent debacl= e, I=20 came across this article. The title is entirely wrong, since it's largely= =20 devoted to tearing the "defense" arguments a new one (or several). It's=20 fairly one-sided, and I'm not sure I would agree with _all_ of the author's= =20 points, but it is a fairly comprehensive summary of the various pro-/anti-= =20 patent arguments. http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blogs/in_defense_of_software_patents %!PS: I'd take a house party over a political party any day (or preferably= =20 night) --nextPart1217208.icpDgmdA6m Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHUs5XLE8yW/+QbWIRAiRPAJwNZKIhfQ8SoLNOcqkf9ZF0XbY8WQCbBjEC uV0Ql07aUwzB1Fbl6o2ANQs= =Mp3w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1217208.icpDgmdA6m-- --===============0657879091== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============0657879091==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Sun Dec 02 17:19:23 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 5921 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2007 17:19:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Dec 2007 17:19:22 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 5703 invoked by uid 107); 2 Dec 2007 17:19:17 -0000 Received: from email2.gra-inc.com (HELO gra-inc.com) (67.62.29.206) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:19:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=gra-inc.com; s=MDaemon; t=1196615830; x=1197220630; q=dns/txt; h=Received: Received:Date:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Message-ID:Reply-To; bh=SWj6W6UgZTYzYa+z5qNNw77stpSete9FBzZjha+1 was=; b=aC4Tvc7loif1Y3jcCLQ8eUHFDgiJ8wQuS6bQbvqLzT/M3/FWujeBWGy7 iOB1O0ZyMAunuZXLjZob6v0RWPI6c85YWrNLObQiWph0K19u6cPztNED8QRmMDhb weCfgoI+VWLUn2NYu9N/iG09cKJl7MXJahYQ8uAAOGwK2MBY4SU= Received: from WorldClient by gra-inc.com (MDaemon PRO v9.6.2) with ESMTP id 04-md50000120493.msg for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:17:10 -0500 Received: from [72.94.208.72] by gra-inc.com via WorldClient with HTTP; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:17:06 -0500 Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:17:06 -0500 From: "Greg Helledy" To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: X-Mailer: WorldClient 9.6.2 X-Authenticated-Sender: gregsonh@gra-inc.com X-Spam-Processed: gra-inc.com, Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:17:10 -0500 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-Return-Path: gregsonh@gra-inc.com X-Envelope-From: gregsonh@gra-inc.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-MDAV-Processed: gra-inc.com, Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:17:10 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] Debian security update breaks OpenGL X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: gregsonh@gra-inc.com, Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org I decided to try an easy solution and install a new nvidia module. That (after some fiddling with xorg.conf) fixed the problem, whatever it was. Greg Helledy -- Privileged/Confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and notify GRA, Inc. (postmaster@gra-inc.com) immediately. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet e-mail for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information expressed in this message are not given or endorsed by GRA, Inc. unless otherwise indicated by an authorized representative independent of this message. ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 02:11:13 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 25202 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 02:11:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 02:11:12 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 25168 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 02:11:09 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:11:09 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBE65AAEB; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:11:06 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: y58+xITRPTf2NtVFo3fLBOEjj7cyzjKsKYQpJu2vVnSZ 1196647865 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86E13AA4; Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:11:05 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: gregsonh@gra-inc.com, Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] Debian security update breaks OpenGL Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:10:43 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712022110.53212.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1160014293==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============1160014293== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1263223.lX603vn7JZ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart1263223.lX603vn7JZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday 02 December 2007, Greg Helledy wrote: > I decided to try an easy solution and install a new nvidia module. That > (after some fiddling with xorg.conf) fixed the problem, whatever it was. You probably had a kernel update. Either it was not compatible with your=20 previous nvidia module, or a version conflict caused it to be removed witho= ut=20 you noticing. Aptitude generally makes it clearer when such conflicts occu= r,=20 so it's best to use it instead of apt-get. --nextPart1263223.lX603vn7JZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHU2WtLE8yW/+QbWIRAo8yAJ9FusjjedItfDdD0lxHeEmO/FyAhQCdFYNK 8QfRBCRzu3WxwEIi17ABS9s= =YnmC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1263223.lX603vn7JZ-- --===============1160014293== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============1160014293==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 05:24:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 27016 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 05:24:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 05:24:05 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 26981 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 05:24:01 -0000 Received: from qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (HELO QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.24) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:24:01 -0500 Received: from OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id L4Za1Y0050lTkoC0A03j00; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:24:01 +0000 Received: from [192.168.168.7] ([69.253.130.163]) by OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id L5Pz1Y0073XgKel0800000; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:24:01 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=PmIQZXStbTadLu1ANOUA:9 a=T_sx8n3VBazQSXOfK0gA:7 a=qg7BWcZjWc_BqE7QCc628MXAs9EA:4 a=LvUxLZ3iF9QA:10 a=oltX7JrCFroA:10 Message-ID: <475392EB.60107@op.net> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:23:55 -0500 From: jeff User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List , jeffsgroup@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org A few weeks ago, my main pc went poof. Just a blip and it was gone. It was either the mb or cpu, but it was quite a few years old so it didn't matter which. After checking with Santa, I was granted approval to take advantage of a deal I found online: AMD X2 5000 Black $129, mb $50-100, 2g DDR800 $50. The Black versions are multiplier-unlocked chips designed for overclocking. Web research revealed no gotchas. Tom's Hardware had a very enlightening test of this chip, stating that because of overclocking, AMD was basically giving away its fastest chip, the 6400, for the price of the 5000. They got it cranked up to 3.2GHz before anything got weird. Because they overclock via multiplier, the chip doesn't require drastic cooling measures (water, freon, sitting near Hillary). The deals were had via newegg.com, where they're still available. I've had only success with them the few times I ordered at work. Note that they have a 7 day return policy for defective and 30 day exchange. After that you deal with the mfgr. Some things to consider if you're going to do this: 1. motherboard/case size - I got a regular ATX mb for my regular case 2. memory - it's worth whatever the DDR800 memory costs, but we got a great deal anyway. The boards seem to take 8-16g max. 3. SATA - most boards had one IDE connector and 2-6 SATAs - plan accordingly for hd's and cd/dvd drives. I realized I was short a fan so I checked what was recommended or available. It went from a $10 cheapie all the way up, so I settled for the recommended Arctic Cooler for $20. Retail being what it is, I also paid $5 for a tube of conductive grease (which I chased my wife around with that evening). The mb came with one whole SATA cable and one IDE. Ymmv. I checked on each board recommended by Tom's, running $48 to $75. Nothing special was needed so I compared features and went with the $75 unit due to it having an additional PCI slot, gig ethernet, and more SATA connectors. It also had onboard video but I wound up using a card I had sitting around. I got everything neatly installed (if by neatly you mean INSIDE the case, but still hanging out), right up to where i had to install the Arctic Cooler. The picture did not do this thing any favors; it was HUGE. Between looking like a radiator and the front of Darth Vader's mask, it was a most impressive beastie. I kept putting it in front of my mouth, saying "Use the force, Luke." Mind you, my coworkers were uniformly impressed. Of course they're impressed by blinking lights and one of them plays with magnets and hurts himself a lot. In any case, this device fit much easier onto my face than its intended target (the cpu). I have never found fans easy to get along with and this was no exception. In fact, it was much closer to a bloody battle, but we only used MY blood. It had a convenient lever to latch the whole thing up when you got it connected to both pins of the clamp. And the latch WAS very convenient and locked the entire thing up, once I got it connected to both pins of the clamp. This involved removing the power supply I just spent 15 minutes attaching, the aforementioned bleeding, 30 minutes of screaming, and the complete destruction of whatever I hit, threw, and stepped on in the process. I broke a fan rail protector simply holding it down and trying to latch the fan. Another mb note: the power supply connector is a 24 pin jobbie, so if you have a 20 pin power supply (like I did), you need an adapter or a different power supply. After my wife, the nurse, got me patched up, I checked again for stupid mistakes (of which I make way more than my share) and powered the bugger up. And for all my efforts, I got a blinking cursor. "Now I'm screwed," I thought. I know squat about this generation of chips and boards. A nice dinner (at 10pm) has a way of rejuvenating the mind, so back I went. I figured I'd first try using onboard video, in case that was confusing things. - nope. When I tried after pulling the IDE cable, I was rewarded with a BIOS screen. Yes, an IDE argument had killed the boot process. Feeling much better, I proceeded to boot to the cd of Xubuntu 7.04 (Feisty), as it's all I had at the moment. Damn if it didn't run. It seemed to find everything quickly and well, so I hit INSTALL. After a flawless install, I proceeded to overclocking by shoving the thing right up to the Tom's limit of 3.2GHz. Then I upgraded to Gutsy via the suggestion given by the update notification. There have been 2 lockups or so since I got everything installed and set up to my liking and I'm going to keep an eye on this. If it happens again, I might turn down the multiplier by one to see if that fixes it. I haven't spent enough time to critically evaluate the performance but it's fast. Later in the week I'll put it through its paces, but it doesn't feel like that tremendous a speed burst. The old cpu was an AMD 2400 or thereabouts, with 1.5g and the same OS. Keep in mind that I run Xubuntu on purpose - even with one of the fastest dual cores on the market, I still don't want my GUI bogging down my pc. No Vista, no Compiz, no KDE, no eye candy (except my wife and dog). I use a solid color background for the desktop. It's been quite a while since my home pc was much faster than my work pc. With the way my Nemesis OS(XP) has been treating me, I may soon have the only MIS dept servicing an OS that they refuse to run. It's been about 2 months since the last complete reinstall of XP and it's doing weird things that usually don't start til many months down the line. I actually have a screenshot of a command prompt telling me the system doesn't recognize the command `ping' (something ate the path). In any case, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, this is a very worthwhile project. It's also an incredibly cheap way to get a hell of an upgrade. The whole thing cost me about $225. ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 07:10:43 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 12046 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 07:10:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 07:10:40 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 12006 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 07:10:38 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:10:38 -0500 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.internal [10.202.2.42]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E05B5A97F for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 03 Dec 2007 02:10:35 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: L9+BDdOoCH/i775o0laoGzF/Z3bdGDh2QZnAYJtXCg6X 1196665834 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADF5B109 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:10:34 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 02:10:13 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> In-Reply-To: <475392EB.60107@op.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712030210.26572.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1111135938==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============1111135938== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1479947.rLzUEh52SX"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart1479947.rLzUEh52SX Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 03 December 2007, jeff wrote: > Some things to consider if you're going to do this: 0. While I have no real preference when it comes to the current crop of=20 AMD/Intel CPUs, there is absolutely no way you could convince me to get an= =20 AMD-based desktop/laptop system at this point. Whereas Intel-based systems= =20 have mature, actively-maintained, Free drivers for the onboard Intel video= =20 devices, with AMD-based systems you are forced to use some sort of=20 proprietary video driver. I've dealt with both the nvidia and fglrx driver= s,=20 and I want nothing more to do with either of them if I can get away with it. Yes, I know about the recent advancements with regard to AMD/ATI's driver, = but=20 that driver is far from complete and AMD/ATI doesn't commit anywhere near t= he=20 amount of development resources to it as Intel does to theirs. Indeed, Int= el=20 contracted Tungsten Graphics (creators & maintainers of MESA, *the* Linux G= L=20 library) to write their driver, hired X.org developers (like Keith Packard)= ,=20 and released the Linux and Windows versions *simultaneously*. AMD/ATI only= =20 recently decided to even co-operate in the effort to write a Free driver, a= nd=20 only for their newer cards, with the actual work being written by Novell. = =20 =46or the future, AMD/ATI have only promised documentation and a barebones= =20 driver; so it seems they are at best somewhat indifferent towards Linux=20 support. > I haven't spent enough time to critically evaluate the performance but > it's fast. Later in the week I'll put it through its paces, but it > doesn't feel like that tremendous a speed burst. The old cpu was an AMD > 2400 or thereabouts, with 1.5g and the same OS. Keep in mind that I run > Xubuntu on purpose - even with one of the fastest dual cores on the > market, I still don't want my GUI bogging down my pc. No Vista, no > Compiz, no KDE, no eye candy (except my wife and dog). I use a solid > color background for the desktop. I've never quite understood that outlook. Unless you need an extra few FPS= in=20 a game (and you don't, since you run Linux), or are trying to do some sort = of=20 overwhelmingly-intensive task (like editing ultra-high-res video) on a=20 machine that isn't up to it, what is all that horsepower for? I'd much=20 rather use a little bit more of my machine's resources in order to save=20 myself time and effort. I switch between KDE and the ultra-minimal ratpois= on=20 WM; ratpoison when I need every last CPU cycle & bit of RAM (... games), an= d=20 KDE for when I want to actually get something done. Also, even if the minimal WMs themselves start up faster, the total amount = of=20 resources used tends to be quite similar to a full-fledged desktop=20 environment when you want to actually do something, and in some cases can=20 even be higher. %!PS: I've been going 9 years on my P3, running Windows 2000 and later Linu= x=20 with KDE. The only times it really feels slow are when I try to play more= =20 recent games or when I notice out how much less time it takes people with=20 newer machines to compile software. --nextPart1479947.rLzUEh52SX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHU6viLE8yW/+QbWIRAsSPAKCQdGVrFrq1CfKxAQS8cuUXS+tTjwCgoILO Oc9KeHh9b1+Rz419P4oI+ew= =3MPT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1479947.rLzUEh52SX-- --===============1111135938== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============1111135938==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 13:03:23 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 3080 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 13:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 13:03:20 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 2999 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 13:02:52 -0000 Received: from smtp-auth.no-ip.com (HELO smtp-auth.no-ip.com) (204.16.252.95) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:02:52 -0500 X-No-IP: v-system.net@noip-smtp X-Report-Spam-To: abuse@no-ip.com Received: from osx10.v-system.net (c-69-139-74-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [69.139.74.31]) (Authenticated sender: v-system.net@noip-smtp) by smtp-auth.no-ip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A2ABCA1 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:02:44 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL: -0.113,BAYES_00: -1.665,HTML_40_50: 0.496, HTML_MESSAGE: 0.001,CUSTOM_RULE_SUBJECT: ALLOW,TOTAL_SCORE: -1.281 X-Spam-Level: Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by osx10.v-system.net for plug@lists.phillylinux.org; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 08:02:42 -0500 To: "Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List" From: "Brian Vagnoni" Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse In-Reply-To: 475392EB.60107@op.net Message-ID: <20071203130242.64a5e34e@osx10.v-system.net> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:02:42 -0500 X-User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071025 Firefox/2.0.0.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1169899073==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1169899073== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------27b4c663d5ac0b63b1eb257a8196153f" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -------------27b4c663d5ac0b63b1eb257a8196153f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well at least you weren't bored into unconscienceness watching Fred Thom= son (yawn). Good luck with your new hardware. Brian Vagnoni =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =20 Because they overclock via multiplier, the chip doesn't require drastic cooling measures (water, freon, sitting near Hillary). =20 In any case, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, this is a ver= y worthwhile project. It's also an incredibly cheap way to get a hell o= f an upgrade. The whole thing cost me about $225. =20 -------------27b4c663d5ac0b63b1eb257a8196153f Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well at least you weren't bored into unconscienceness watching Fred Thom= son (yawn). Good luck with your new hardware.

Brian Vagnoni
 Because they overcl= ock via multiplier, the chip
doesn't require drastic cooling measures (water, freon, sitting near
Hillary).

In any case, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, this is a very<= br> worthwhile project. It's also an incredibly cheap way to get a hell of<= br> an upgrade. The whole thing cost me about $225.

-------------27b4c663d5ac0b63b1eb257a8196153f-- --===============1169899073== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============1169899073==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 13:25:12 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 6908 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 13:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 13:25:09 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 6856 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 13:25:05 -0000 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (HELO rv-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.198.187) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:25:05 -0500 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k20so2670683rvb for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:24:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=RbjaEcy1wW2YK1ognEviHLaRBKFXGqima5jpGs2kiak=; b=t41D/wvW3WkVvBOFINTiiTbTL11XOc3AyTdWaB+YZbUm+31ouhq+JgMllIt7z8jJjzxh/oT4KJ9U4cHAP6KY7GBdOdFn93rkmY37/ko84T+17GSUmbyDHlnvVIxit7PFz7WM57lMUZSYjNqOfj5b7PDzGoGfJgxtCP66DIa5XOI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=o1+4fX6N5kcAaRAfmX/DdY525XxW7UY484umdY/GaP96POj2ctZyubg5ii6Eb4/dXNte8hXYG//Cxpd7bVMlBkLl0onBRvOxnANj5u44IkpocNyfu+rDyNGZUPTXAKATGdlM46OHXeAzwsEzXMjsHOVCMts5y4CEo4i7cwQFCps= Received: by 10.140.177.15 with SMTP id z15mr1742404rve.1196688299396; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:24:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.76.19 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 05:24:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8200bab70712030524y119eb617yd4387143f4ea30de@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:24:59 +0200 From: "Chuckk Hubbard" To: "Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List" Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse In-Reply-To: <475392EB.60107@op.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> Cc: jeffsgroup@yahoogroups.com X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org On Dec 3, 2007 7:23 AM, jeff wrote: > Mind you, my coworkers were > uniformly impressed. Of course they're impressed by blinking lights and > one of them plays with magnets and hurts himself a lot. lol > This involved removing the power > supply I just spent 15 minutes attaching, the aforementioned bleeding, > 30 minutes of screaming, and the complete destruction of whatever I hit, > threw, and stepped on in the process. lmao > No Vista, no > Compiz, no KDE, no eye candy (except my wife and dog). I use a solid > color background for the desktop. Ditto, except the part about your wife. I am quite satisfied with Fluxbox and lots of shell scripts. > In any case, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, this is a very > worthwhile project. It's also an incredibly cheap way to get a hell of > an upgrade. The whole thing cost me about $225. Awesome. I will definitely follow your lead. One of these days. -Chuckk -- http://www.badmuthahubbard.com ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 14:45:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 24281 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 14:45:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 14:45:23 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 24246 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 14:45:20 -0000 Received: from newman.rhd.org (HELO marshall.rhd.org) (63.139.112.166) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:45:20 -0500 Received: from 10.10.5.11 [10.10.5.11] by marshall.rhd.org with XWall v3.41 ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:45:16 -0500 Message-ID: <47541647.8040005@op.net> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:44:23 -0500 From: jeff User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <200712030210.26572.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> In-Reply-To: <200712030210.26572.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Matthew Rosewarne wrote: > 0. While I have no real preference when it comes to the current crop of > AMD/Intel CPUs, there is absolutely no way you could convince me to get an > AMD-based desktop/laptop system at this point. Ah. Fortunately I wasn't. Objection heard and noted. >> market, I still don't want my GUI bogging down my pc. No Vista, no >> Compiz, no KDE, no eye candy (except my wife and dog). I use a solid >> color background for the desktop. > > I've never quite understood that outlook. That's ok, I've never understood people who use Vista or Compiz. I almost had a brain hemorrhage when people on the Treo list started going NUTS over `pretty' cases for the thing. > Unless you need an extra few FPS in > a game (and you don't, since you run Linux), or are trying to do some sort of > overwhelmingly-intensive task (like editing ultra-high-res video) on a > machine that isn't up to it, what is all that horsepower for? Interesting question. Since my days of being independently wealthy are over, I can't purchase a new pc as often as I'd like. The expiration of my last system hastened the process, although I was overdue. I would've gone for a less expensive unit but my wife observed that I do spend rather a lot of time with my computers and it would make sense to buy something really nice that will serve me well for quite a few years. Smart woman. Bad taste in men. I wanted something that, to quote the man in the pet shop, `...would go VOOM.' Lastly, it turned out that I spent way less for this than I would for almost anything else that was already built. > I'd much > rather use a little bit more of my machine's resources in order to save > myself time and effort. I don't find that XFCE cripples me in any way. KDE is prettier though. I have a work desktop with PCLinuxOS, which uses KDE. Not sure I'd want to switch but might try just to see what happens. > %!PS: I've been going 9 years on my P3, running Windows 2000 and later Linux Just as you mentioned saving yourself time and effort via KDE, you could do both with a newer processor. But if it works for you, that's great. ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 15:52:04 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 7481 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 15:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 15:52:03 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 7430 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 15:51:57 -0000 Received: from postoffice.campusparty.com (HELO oktoberfest.campusparty.com) (146.145.97.99) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 10:51:57 -0500 Received: from oktoberfest.campusparty.com (oktoberfest.campusparty.com [127.0.0.1]) by oktoberfest.campusparty.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id lB3FprqV005148 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:51:53 -0500 Received: (from apache@localhost) by oktoberfest.campusparty.com (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id lB3Fpr82005147; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:51:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: oktoberfest.campusparty.com: apache set sender to scs@CampusClients.com using -f Received: from 192.168.0.23 (SquirrelMail authenticated user seanc) by postoffice.campusparty.com with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:51:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1563.192.168.0.23.1196697113.squirrel@postoffice.campusparty.com> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Sean C. Sheridan" To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.7-4.fc4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Subject: [PLUG] MI5 alert on =?iso-8859-1?q?China=92s_cyberspace_spy_threat?= X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: scs@CampusClients.com, Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article2980250.ece MI5 alert on China’s cyberspace spy threat The Government has openly accused China of carrying out state-sponsored espionage against vital parts of Britain’s economy, including the computer systems of big banks and financial services firms. In an unprecedented alert, the Director-General of MI5 sent a confidential letter to 300 chief executives and security chiefs at banks, accountants and legal firms this week warning them that they were under attack from “Chinese state organisations”. It is believed to be the first time that the Government has directly accused China of involvement in web-based espionage. Such a blunt and explicit warning from Jonathan Evans could have serious diplomatic consequences and cast a shadow over Gordon Brown’s first official visit to China as Prime Minister early in the new year. (snip) -- Sean C. Sheridan scs@CampusClients.com Campus Party, Inc. 444 North Third St. Philadelphia, PA 19123 (215) 320-1810, xtn 117 (215) 320-1814 fax http://www.CampusClients.com http://www.CampusParty.com ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 19:21:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 25608 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 19:21:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 19:21:48 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 25571 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 19:21:43 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:21:43 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B57B5BE63 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:21:40 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: mwUMgJVjqQ5+Z2i3WVaRmvcan2IPVeTS0mxdJ/YpoSir 1196709700 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F922748D for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:40 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:21:26 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <200712030210.26572.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> <47541647.8040005@op.net> In-Reply-To: <47541647.8040005@op.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712031421.34171.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0219693714==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============0219693714== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3089085.RmfJxUpCA9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart3089085.RmfJxUpCA9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 03 December 2007, jeff wrote: > That's ok, I've never understood people who use Vista or Compiz. > I almost had a brain hemorrhage when people on the Treo list started > going NUTS over `pretty' cases for the thing. Definitely agreed. Not only does that kind of thing tax the hardware, but = it=20 tends to distract the user, and I usually find the effects to be fairly=20 garish. I don't know much about Vista, but what I've seen from Compiz seem= s=20 to indicate a greater concern for maximising bling instead of utility or=20 tasteful aesthetics. I was thinking more of a more powerful DE such as GNOME or KDE, which I fin= d=20 make managing the chaos of my desktop somewhat easier than the minimal WMs. > Interesting question. > Since my days of being independently wealthy are over, I can't purchase > a new pc as often as I'd like. The expiration of my last system > hastened the process, although I was overdue. > > I would've gone for a less expensive unit but my wife observed that I do > spend rather a lot of time with my computers and it would make sense to > buy something really nice that will serve me well for quite a few years. > Smart woman. Bad taste in men. > > I wanted something that, to quote the man in the pet shop, `...would go > VOOM.' Well, when I did build my machine originally, I spent quite bit of attentio= n=20 (and money) to make sure it would last and ... go VOOM. Probably the best= =20 single decision I made was to get SCSI disks (running at 10k RPM) instead o= f=20 IDE, which made an enormous difference in the responsiveness, especially as= =20 more demand was put on the CPU. I'm not sure whether there's a similar=20 benefit to using SCSI over SATA, since I haven't kept track of this sort of= =20 thing. > I don't find that XFCE cripples me in any way. > KDE is prettier though. I have a work desktop with PCLinuxOS, which > uses KDE. Not sure I'd want to switch but might try just to see what > happens. Yeah, it's not that any particular thing is "crippling", but when the vario= us=20 parts of the desktop are well-integrated and similar, I find that the=20 conveniences add up. I used to be a diehard fluxboxer, but eventually I=20 realised that it became a real pain when I tried to do more than a few task= s=20 on it at once. Also, when you start up any GNOME/KDE app, you're loading=20 much of what the full DE would load, so I found there really wasn't lot of= =20 difference in terms of resource usage. > Just as you mentioned saving yourself time and effort via KDE, you could > do both with a newer processor. Well, that's mostly about being inadequately-funded more than crunched for= =20 time. Also, I suppose I'd rather not have to bother with setting up a new=20 machine until I have to. --nextPart3089085.RmfJxUpCA9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHVFc+LE8yW/+QbWIRAof0AJ9W2fhgVmyg7qci/krJVW68NCbvcwCeIMYs QzAiA9Xr+5xSgXFidKeOsX4= =zrLY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3089085.RmfJxUpCA9-- --===============0219693714== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============0219693714==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 20:45:05 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 5934 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 20:45:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 20:45:05 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 5867 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 20:45:00 -0000 Received: from smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com (HELO smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com) (209.73.179.140) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with SMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:45:00 -0500 Received: (qmail 55200 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 20:44:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO art-kubuntu.local) (art.alexion@verizon.net@63.139.112.162 with plain) by smtp102.vzn.mail.dcn.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 20:44:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: h1c8Jl4VM1k3V4ycEhHU4_Xuxe7DcJwkmhlHOfT7fSIOOzs29.xOH4QBkkUacp_dqmAyDhTZWw-- From: Art Alexion To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:42:53 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <47541647.8040005@op.net> <200712031421.34171.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> In-Reply-To: <200712031421.34171.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712031543.01508.art.alexion@verizon.net> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2017704096==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============2017704096== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2181402.kTm6pO5AjY"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart2181402.kTm6pO5AjY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 03 December 2007 14:21:26 Matthew Rosewarne wrote: > what I've seen from Compiz seems > to indicate a greater concern for maximising bling instead of utility or > tasteful aesthetics. As soon as my boss gives me the OK, I plan to deploy SLED to a few voluntee= r=20 user-testers in our company. My gut feeling is that Compiz, while mostly=20 bling with not much utility, is what will sell Linux to the volunteers. --nextPart2181402.kTm6pO5AjY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUAR1RqVULG/oYII0YuAQIu/QP/YZ0i+yUb/HUqk6t7ClbgU6WVbK7XPfnQ aL33jKS2uKOSnabGxqnXprOrdPbGlf8VnV0TZh63QKOWhOcVMap4tO3OqZA/h0fZ iTGPGslYOLRy3euddF8wX+f5lyLKI3Sjz6OWMbiPnnLMlW7THSuyPvH7kozYcCbs vqYuAXvACfg= =MZ8u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2181402.kTm6pO5AjY-- --===============2017704096== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============2017704096==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 21:09:33 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 11145 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 21:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 21:09:33 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 11110 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 21:09:29 -0000 Received: from sd-green-bigip-177.dreamhost.com (HELO spunkymail-a14.g.dreamhost.com) (208.97.132.177) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:09:29 -0500 Received: from [192.168.50.104] (c-67-162-239-36.hsd1.de.comcast.net [67.162.239.36]) by spunkymail-a14.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC07190E33 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:09:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:09:23 -0500 From: Cliff Pankonien User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <47541647.8040005@op.net> <200712031421.34171.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> <200712031543.01508.art.alexion@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <200712031543.01508.art.alexion@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org i used to think the same thing, then i remapped a few compiz keys (alt-q rotates cube left, alt-w rotates cube right)...now i actually find it useful, kinda like a super alt-tab...that's the extent of my use of it though... Art Alexion wrote: > On Monday 03 December 2007 14:21:26 Matthew Rosewarne wrote: >> what I've seen from Compiz seems >> to indicate a greater concern for maximising bling instead of utility or >> tasteful aesthetics. > > As soon as my boss gives me the OK, I plan to deploy SLED to a few volunteer > user-testers in our company. My gut feeling is that Compiz, while mostly > bling with not much utility, is what will sell Linux to the volunteers. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org > Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce > General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 21:31:37 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 15016 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 21:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 21:31:34 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 14974 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 21:31:31 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:31:31 -0500 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.internal [10.202.2.42]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77A45C0CE for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:31:27 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: uzlQz6D0HywMXPQpBRJZyoSJoNCQ76XKr3p+rJZBYF6v 1196717487 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5465274A1 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:31:27 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:31:18 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <200712031543.01508.art.alexion@verizon.net> <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> In-Reply-To: <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712031631.25144.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1488810919==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============1488810919== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart5858245.7ek3v58rfx"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart5858245.7ek3v58rfx Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 03 December 2007, Cliff Pankonien wrote: > i used to think the same thing, then i remapped a few compiz keys (alt-q > rotates cube left, alt-w rotates cube right)...now i actually find it > useful, kinda like a super alt-tab...that's the extent of my use of it > though... I don't really get the cube. I already make heavy use of virtual desktops,= =20 switching between them with ctrl-tab, or picking them with ctrl-F#. As far= =20 as I've seen, the cube doesn't actually improve on that. It would probably= =20 be nicer to have a subtle zooming or fading effect when changing virtual=20 desktops, if just to give the eye a sense of movement & continuity. --nextPart5858245.7ek3v58rfx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHVHWtLE8yW/+QbWIRAqFFAJ9iLw9ON7ml0XcFihQNVqkpAn8OXwCfddt+ ihXcM5x7iHTHVKsMua/t9cI= =USgU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart5858245.7ek3v58rfx-- --===============1488810919== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============1488810919==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 21:35:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 17217 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 21:35:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 21:35:15 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 17183 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 21:35:13 -0000 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (HELO py-out-1112.google.com) (64.233.166.181) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:35:13 -0500 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so7041976pyi for ; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:35:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=QlfBrABRwJLo8EIbzGxrkLT+ladfoBI1BkbgvwDelzE=; b=QGKzChPrrRybx83kwagZktUlTnO61DNUHTSHp02qeuSFC3Avs5iVjWC2YGScstZeAdu5HvHC4vJlCbBW/rneA8orc1wYk20hEOOmVaI1os5M/amerANClzuJFKYB26SLj+jttwMrKcz3UT8Xcj3jKsiD8D9LQ2Q/dz4hAJNEJ/U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=iHvJGEchiDco5caPdLdEMCNWkJd6ImB8TKHanBvvSpRlWTjlDslqCwxTHFoJURHVn6mfuG+v5i0A0r8mZ+Hz+IqD0GmFTEq8gXbFrJXHFAdf1Rh8++7Ni+gAiSKfO/M4N8kRtj3ilnZdrwh0yCw7Nu/xcKINg2UsiRCxuaanZFM= Received: by 10.65.159.19 with SMTP id l19mr16276343qbo.1196717708373; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.35.5 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:35:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:35:08 -0500 From: "K.S. Bhaskar" To: "Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List" Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse In-Reply-To: <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <47541647.8040005@op.net> <200712031421.34171.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> <200712031543.01508.art.alexion@verizon.net> <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6fb225752f4baa61 X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2064087576==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============2064087576== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12284_21081472.1196717708364" ------=_Part_12284_21081472.1196717708364 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bling sells. Many years ago, I had someone (who should have known better) tell me that a very capable piece of software was klunky because it didn't have beautifully textured buttons, which its less capable competitor sported. I couldn't believe my ears. But then, at least he was being honest in sharing his opinion with me, and this engineer has since come to the conclusion that people value bling even if has no practical value. Why else would anyone buy an Apple product? 8-) Apropos compiz, paraphrasing Mark Twain on smoking, it's easy to give up compiz because I have done it so many times! Last week, it really screwed up KDE on my AMD64 Gutsy - just simple stuff like knetworkmanager refusing to start up, and the power manager refusing to run in the system tray. Things I take for granted. As well as other peculiarities, like having two copies of each desktop under the Desktop previewer in my task bar. Oh, yes, the bling was nice. But it's got to work right before it can have value. [At least that's something that Apple understands.] -- Bhaskar On Dec 3, 2007 4:09 PM, Cliff Pankonien wrote: > i used to think the same thing, then i remapped a few compiz keys (alt-q > rotates cube left, alt-w rotates cube right)...now i actually find it > useful, kinda like a super alt-tab...that's the extent of my use of it > though... > > Art Alexion wrote: > > On Monday 03 December 2007 14:21:26 Matthew Rosewarne wrote: > >> what I've seen from Compiz seems > >> to indicate a greater concern for maximising bling instead of utility > or > >> tasteful aesthetics. > > > > As soon as my boss gives me the OK, I plan to deploy SLED to a few > volunteer > > user-testers in our company. My gut feeling is that Compiz, while > mostly > > bling with not much utility, is what will sell Linux to the volunteers. ------=_Part_12284_21081472.1196717708364 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bling sells.  Many years ago, I had someone (who should have known better) tell me that a very capable piece of software was klunky because it didn't have beautifully textured buttons, which its less capable competitor sported.  I couldn't believe my ears.  But then, at least he was being honest in sharing his opinion with me, and this engineer has since come to the conclusion that people value bling even if has no practical value.

<Flamebait> Why else would anyone buy an Apple product? </Flamebait> 8-)

Apropos compiz, paraphrasing Mark Twain on smoking, it's easy to give up compiz because I have done it so many times!  Last week, it really screwed up KDE on my AMD64 Gutsy - just simple stuff like knetworkmanager refusing to start up, and the power manager refusing to run in the system tray.  Things I take for granted.  As well as other peculiarities, like having two copies of each desktop under the Desktop previewer in my task bar.  Oh, yes, the bling was nice.  But it's got to work right before it can have value.  [At least that's something that Apple understands.]

-- Bhaskar

On Dec 3, 2007 4:09 PM, Cliff Pankonien <cliff@ccpip.com> wrote:
i used to think the same thing, then i remapped a few compiz keys (alt-q
rotates cube left, alt-w rotates cube right)...now i actually find it
useful, kinda like a super alt-tab...that's the extent of my use of it
though...

Art Alexion wrote:
> On Monday 03 December 2007 14:21:26 Matthew Rosewarne wrote:
>> what I've seen from Compiz seems
>> to indicate a greater concern for maximising bling instead of utility or
>> tasteful aesthetics.
>
> As soon as my boss gives me the OK, I plan to deploy SLED to a few volunteer
> user-testers in our company.  My gut feeling is that Compiz, while mostly
> bling with not much utility, is what will sell Linux to the volunteers.

------=_Part_12284_21081472.1196717708364-- --===============2064087576== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============2064087576==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 22:08:14 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 23835 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 22:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 22:08:14 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 23800 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 22:08:11 -0000 Received: from qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (HELO QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.62.56) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:08:11 -0500 Received: from OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.44]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LH3E1Y00V0xGWP8050dv00; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:08:08 +0000 Received: from smailcenter45.comcast.net ([204.127.205.145]) by OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LN881Y00438kpyc0300000; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:08:08 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=o-uyV60hqKcA:10 a=3KKuDvyrYILFA+7SL0jfMQ==:17 a=aginAqVKGnZat7FiUR8A:9 a=T_JhyOhGuvVGWr6b6sp3gQ4qfD4A:4 a=JqzK7hVu6n4A:10 Received: from [67.129.115.67] by smailcenter45.comcast.net; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:08:06 +0000 From: mdecheser@comcast.net To: scs@CampusClients.com, Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] MI5 alert on China’s cyberspace spy threat Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:08:06 +0000 Message-Id: <120320072208.25486.47547E46000C14E00000638E22007623029D0A9C0A080C0A0B03@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2007) X-Authenticated-Sender: bWRlY2hlc2VyQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org It is nice to know that MI5 is up to speed with information many admins have known for a long time. I personally have a few dozen rule sets in iptables which are in place to specifically block subnets originating in China. I can't say that I want to know if the traffic is originating from regular joe shmo users or the Chinese government itself, as I'm not trying to complicate my life too much ;). I don't want this to be interpreted as China-bashing, but the majority of malicious traffic coming into my server originates in China. Nuff said. Cheers, _md > MI5 alert on China’s cyberspace spy threat > > The Government has openly accused China of carrying out state-sponsored > espionage against vital parts of Britain’s economy, including the computer > systems of big banks and financial services firms. > > In an unprecedented alert, the Director-General of MI5 sent a confidential > letter to 300 chief executives and security chiefs at banks, accountants > and legal firms this week warning them that they were under attack from > “Chinese state organisations”. ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 22:18:49 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 28040 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 22:18:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 22:18:49 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 28019 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 22:18:45 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:18:45 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F205C531 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:18:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:18:41 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: dA6gpfmm4cBy1nDaGl6kwwtIXEpJ42pPdNVKackp8h5m 1196720315 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF742751C for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:18:35 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:18:25 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712031718.30365.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0512275802==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============0512275802== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4677098.oTyIO7ut5Z"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart4677098.oTyIO7ut5Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Monday 03 December 2007, K.S. Bhaskar wrote: > Bling sells. Many years ago, I had someone (who should have known better) > tell me that a very capable piece of software was klunky because it didn't > have beautifully textured buttons, which its less capable competitor > sported. I couldn't believe my ears. But then, at least he was being > honest in sharing his opinion with me, and this engineer has since come to > the conclusion that people value bling even if has no practical value. Yeah, a sad truth that to me explains just about everything about Compiz. = =20 Despite serious architectural flaws and overwhelmingly poor design, Compiz= =20 has been *the* feature that almost all the distros were racing to include. = =20 What irks me more is that while Compiz is almost entirely irrelevant to the= =20 overall user experience, there are real problems with the UNIX/Linux setup = we=20 have that aren't getting nearly that level of attention. It seems Novell=20 (who created Compiz and the awful XGL in total secrecy) may not have anythi= ng=20 better to spend their time on, but at least Red Hat seems to be doing usefu= l=20 work with efforts such as PolicyKit, PackageKit, and NetworkManager. > Why else would anyone buy an Apple product? 8-) Don't forget the personality cult and ego stroking! :> --nextPart4677098.oTyIO7ut5Z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHVIC2LE8yW/+QbWIRAgh8AKCjX9oMY0ca/2IEdTkBAnCuRIkAxACfQ/jw rv2lu4ToRn+5qrldfAbiQN4= =5nvZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart4677098.oTyIO7ut5Z-- --===============0512275802== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============0512275802==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 22:56:50 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 3270 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 22:56:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 22:56:49 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 3249 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 22:56:43 -0000 Received: from crompton.com (HELO bridget.crompton.com) (207.245.69.226) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:56:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by bridget.crompton.com (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id lB3Muew32206 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:56:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:56:40 -0500 (EST) From: Doug Crompton To: "Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List" Subject: Re: [PLUG] Boot Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Anyone have an ideas on this? On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, Doug Crompton wrote: > I am still playing with this Hitahi laptop - 32 meg ram and 1 GB hardrive. > > I kinda gave up on DSL and Kunbuntu. They both just seem to hang after it > gets most of the way through the boot. > > I loaded slackware 12.0 and it works better but still will not boot. I am > using lilo and installing to the MBR. I have a 64 meg swap partition and > the rest is one partition for linux - about 1gb. > > When booting it finds and loads the kernel from the HD but I am getting > kernel messages like - > > udevd-event[2083]: udev_node_mknode: mknode(/dev/vcc/1, 020660,7,1) > failed: no such file or directory > > Lots of messages like that... > > Any ideas? > > The same kernel (I think) boots fine from CD - called huge.s > > Doug > > > **************************** > * Doug Crompton * > * Richboro, PA 18954 * > * 215-431-6307 * > * * > * doug@crompton.com * > * http://www.crompton.com * > **************************** > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org > Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce > General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Mon Dec 03 23:12:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 7193 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2007 23:12:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Dec 2007 23:12:23 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 7157 invoked by uid 107); 3 Dec 2007 23:12:20 -0000 Received: from web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com (HELO web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.236.58) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with SMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:12:20 -0500 Received: (qmail 15037 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Dec 2007 23:12:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=qCWdgqc2GV3jKKvI7mbh4b2VUWaq6ZhJGLtBNtOGkZa9bmeaBWNUDpuehhPhzOrvmcP3GZgbER95LavmwVPv3NQaVuiSTcy3WJ57ATitU7VuuPszGdZPn73Kv9ZtG51A8qyhS54As4Ap+z6dHCV5iChxI5UlBi/1OqAK8Sbv5pI=; X-YMail-OSG: nHSDWYgVM1n7xih36HM4Fpfj8D76VGIt57tIaj7t Received: from [71.224.142.144] by web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:12:16 PST Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:12:16 -0800 (PST) From: Julien Mills Subject: Re: [PLUG] Boot Problem To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <303464.15025.qm@web57704.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Doug: > Anyone have an ideas on this? > > On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, Doug Crompton wrote: > > > I am still playing with this Hitahi laptop - 32 meg ram and 1 GB hardrive. I'd try a few of the other kernels on the install disk. The install finished without any problems, you choose a kernel and rebooted? Its been a few months since I installed so I can't remember exactly how the kernel choices worked, 2.4, 2.6 etc., this error is ringing a bell, maybe it'll come to me. Julien ------------------------------------------------------ Julien Mills julienfmills@yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Tue Dec 04 00:29:38 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 20304 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2007 00:29:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Dec 2007 00:29:34 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 20262 invoked by uid 107); 4 Dec 2007 00:29:32 -0000 Received: from lax-green-bigip-5.dreamhost.com (HELO friskymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com) (208.113.200.5) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:29:32 -0500 Received: from mft.coltrane.site (c-69-249-160-170.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [69.249.160.170]) by friskymail-a2.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143F2131B01 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from jim by mft.coltrane.site with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLfJ-0000ES-O0 for plug@lists.phillylinux.org; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:29:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:29:33 -0500 From: James Barrett To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] Boot Problem Message-ID: <20071204002933.GA30760@mail.jadoba.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1854944921==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============1854944921== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW" Content-Disposition: inline --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 03, 2007 at 05:56:40PM -0500, Doug Crompton wrote: > Anyone have an ideas on this? >=20 > On Sat, 1 Dec 2007, Doug Crompton wrote: >=20 > > I am still playing with this Hitahi laptop - 32 meg ram and 1 GB hardri= ve. > > > > I kinda gave up on DSL and Kunbuntu. They both just seem to hang after = it > > gets most of the way through the boot. Kubuntu will never run on a machine with only 32 MB of RAM. If there is=20 a way to do so, try running DSL in runlevel 2 (or otherwise without a=20 GUI). =20 > > I loaded slackware 12.0 and it works better but still will not boot. I = am > > using lilo and installing to the MBR. I have a 64 meg swap partition and > > the rest is one partition for linux - about 1gb. snip... > > Any ideas? Try an older version of a stable distro. Debian sarge might be a nice=20 fit. Install with a netboot CD; install the base system and nothing=20 else (do not select any packages for installation). Even if the machine=20 does not have network access, the netboot CD can still install the base=20 system. I had to test and install on an old machine with a ~200 MHz PII=20 processor. A very recent version of Knoppix (with a 2.6 kernel) would=20 not boot no matter what I tried, but an older version with a 2.4 kernel=20 booted with no problems on the first try. Sarge comes with a 2.4=20 kernel. Without knowing what you plan on doing with the machine (but guessing=20 that you most likely do not want to use it for running services ), I=20 would hope that it has little or nothing to do with a GUI considering=20 the hardware involved. > > The same kernel (I think) boots fine from CD - called huge.s Slackware 12.0 uses a 2.6 kernel. --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHVJ9t1OcdbM8NFsgRAiQ5AKDB3yMl9AnjkBfpZhZMtkPQG56axgCfaO4i a0cVaV88JuUFlLd3C3AYQlU= =r6Ji -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ew6BAiZeqk4r7MaW-- --===============1854944921== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============1854944921==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Tue Dec 04 00:31:26 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 22257 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2007 00:31:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Dec 2007 00:31:13 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 22141 invoked by uid 107); 4 Dec 2007 00:30:59 -0000 Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (HELO out1.smtp.messagingengine.com) (66.111.4.25) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:30:59 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F22B35BFB7 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:30:53 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: sIlKXU85cosbGloZ6pXzXYk3+uZuRl3aa5WlOfAmznhZ 1196728253 Received: from mikhail.pvrm (c-76-99-140-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [76.99.140.69]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC04523A73 for ; Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:30:53 -0500 (EST) From: Matthew Rosewarne To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List Subject: Re: [PLUG] Boot Problem Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:30:47 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200712031930.52882.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1794860358==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============1794860358== Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1223340.iqG5nD0RcL"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --nextPart1223340.iqG5nD0RcL Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Saturday 01 December 2007, Doug Crompton wrote: > Any ideas? Unfortunately it's fairly difficult to diagnose that over email. It would = be=20 a good idea to bring that machine (and perhaps a few distro CDs) to the=20 meeting on Wednesday. --nextPart1223340.iqG5nD0RcL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBHVJ+8LE8yW/+QbWIRAu+FAKCLjs9nMmhHh5bTFVVWT3uZ6nFnegCfYia3 DiAkhA1TpVSIrMiA4fBNh2g= =G8of -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1223340.iqG5nD0RcL-- --===============1794860358== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___________________________________________________________________________ Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug --===============1794860358==-- From plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Tue Dec 04 00:44:24 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: historian@netisland.net Received: (qmail 25132 invoked from network); 4 Dec 2007 00:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ellesmere.netisland.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Dec 2007 00:44:24 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: alias-plug@lists.phillylinux.org Received: (qmail 25098 invoked by uid 107); 4 Dec 2007 00:44:21 -0000 Received: from vancouver.yorkcabal.org.uk (HELO vancouver.yorkcabal.org.uk) (89.16.166.17) by qpsmtpd.netisland.net (qpsmtpd/0.32) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:44:21 -0500 Received: from lobefin.net ([91.103.132.25] helo=hadrian.lobefin.net ident=Debian-exim) by vancouver.yorkcabal.org.uk with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLtZ-0002RB-Il for plug@lists.phillylinux.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:44:17 +0000 Received: from steve by hadrian.lobefin.net with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IzLtY-0003P7-M9 for plug@lists.phillylinux.org; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:44:16 +0000 Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:44:16 +0000 From: Stephen Gran To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] hardware - a deal I couldn't refuse Message-ID: <20071204004416.GB30801@www.lobefin.net> Mail-Followup-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org References: <475392EB.60107@op.net> <47547083.4040409@ccpip.com> <200712031718.30365.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200712031718.30365.mrosewarne@inoutbox.com> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.0 X-OS: Linux hadrian 2.6.18-5-686 i686 X-Uptime: 4 days X-Latin: Hodie tertio Nonas Decembres MMDCCLX ab urbe condita est X-Date: Today is Boomtime, the 45th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3173 X-DDate: Only 2430174 Shopping Days Left Before X-Day. Fnord. X-Motto: debian/rules User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Authenticated-Sender: C=UK, ST=North Yorkshire, L=York, O=yorkcabal.org.uk, CN=lobefin.net, EMAIL=hostmaster@yorkcabal.org.uk X-Scanned-By: ClamAV 0.91.2 on vancouver.yorkcabal.org.uk; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:44:17 +0000 X-BeenThere: plug@lists.phillylinux.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Id: Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1314674656==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org Errors-To: plug-bounces@lists.phillylinux.org --===============1314674656== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XF85m9dhOBO43t/C" Content-Disposition: inline --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 03, 2007 at 05:18:25PM -0500, Matthew Rosewarne said: >=20 > It seems Novell (who created Compiz and the awful XGL in total > secrecy) may not have anything better to spend their time on,=20 Yes, compiz is a terrible window manager. Just remember, it's just a window manager. All the actual work is done by the xorg backend, and would be trivial to introduce to a real WM. compiz started life as a sort of proof of concept, and then people thought it would be a good idea to try and actually use it day to day. Clearly that was a mistake. > but at least Red Hat seems to be doing useful work with efforts such > as PolicyKit, PackageKit, and NetworkManager. Not trying to be argumentative, but have you actually looked at the code for these things redhat pushes? pm-utils is still mostly a joke, network manager can barely manage to blow it's nose without wetting the bed, and so on. Not trying to be massively cynical, but I think I'll still take community supported code over corporate self indulgence any day. And I would really love to see people get back to thinking about real architecture issues, instead of just tacking a gui on top of a poorly thought out subsystem (yes, network manager, I'm looking at you). Back to your regularly scheduled rant. --=20 --------------------------