Re: [PLUG] VPN Recommendation Wanted

I’m not quite following your first point. Just because a protocol doesn’t support L2 tunneling doesn’t mean it’s “not a VPN.” For example, is OpenVPN in TUN mode also “not a VPN”?

It feels like you’re splitting hairs over topology and packet framing. Can WireGuard pass IP traffic? Yes. Do people generally refer to it as a VPN? Absolutely.

What is a VPN fundamentally but a way to get IP (or Ethernet frames) from one place to another wrapped up in another OSI stack?

You could say the same about IPsec in tunnel mode — it’s a peer-to-peer protocol/platform too. That doesn’t make it any less of a VPN protocol.

Considering that entire businesses are built around WireGuard to fulfill traditional VPN needs, and many VPN providers offer WireGuard as an access option, I’d say the community consensus is clear.

Is Linus wrong here to compare WireGuard against OpenVPN + IPSEC - https://lists.openwall.net/netdev/2018/08/02/124 - since the former isn’t a VPN?

I don’t want to split hairs - whatever you think WireGuard is or isn’t - it can help fulfill Casey’s needs - so it’s worth including in the conversation.

— Jonathan

On Aug 2, 2025, at 15:40, brent saner via plug <plug@lists.phillylinux.org> wrote:

On Fri, Aug 1, 2025, 20:41 Jonathan Caicedo <jonathan@jcaicedo.com> wrote:
Depends on what you want to achieve - but yeah, rolling your own is great too - but I’d opt for WireGuard over OpenVPN.

WireGuard is a peer-to-peer tunnel protocol/platform. It is not a VPN. Yes, they are different things.

It's the difference between, say, a /24 or /64 and L3 vs. a /31 or /127 on L2.

Or an e.g. switch vs a crossover cable on L1, and so forth.

But if you want to bypass geo-restrictions or get a little more privacy by “blending in with the crowd”, it might be worth it to throw some money at a VPN service.

1.) Geo-restriction bypass is a never-ending game of cat-and-mouse, and only encourages unscrupulous business practices by media platforms, media producers, the collaboration they share, and their associated lobbyists.

2.) a.) Tor + (Tails OS|Qubes OS) plus browser fingerprint falsification is better for identity noising. Anonymity/privacy via a VPN provider is a lie, because
b.) Being centralized businesses and/or organizations, they are directly subject to warrants and other law enforcement interventions. All of them keep logs. Some of them lie and say they don't. That almost doesn't even matter, though, because
c.) They have complete ability to examine the entirety of your traffic. The VPN is only encrypted *from* you to *the VPN provider*, not *from* you to your destination. The only safe option there is strong *actual* E2EE between you and the end destination/service. Your VPN provider is just the same as your ISP with less government regulation, as far as privacy goes.
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