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[PLUG] Re: plug digest, Vol 1 #623 - 6 msgs
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Hey guys,
I've been setting up my new router... I'd love some help if any of you
could lend a hand. Here are the specs:
366MHz Celeron
96MB Memory
40GB Hard Drie
Integrated Video etc.
2 x Linksys [tulip] 10/100 PCI NICs
1 x Realtek [who know's what driver?] 10/100 PCI NIC
I'd also like to use this for a print and file server...
Anyhow it's running Gentoo (no X), I'm trying to set up IP Masq.
My setup will be something like:
[CABLE MODEM] <-> [LINUX ROUTER]
^ ^
[4-port Hub] ^
[Crossover]* ^
*Crossover cable to a single PC. [NIC->NIC]
The 4-port Hub will have 2 computers on it. I'm doing this simply
because the original plan was 1 PC per NIC however my USB Cable Modem
prooved harder to setup in Linux then first planned. Also for those of
you asking why even include the third NIC, it's because I need to
differntiate the traffic easily from one computer in particular.
I hope this makes little if any sense.
- Jeff
> Send plug mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of plug digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: Question about dual booting install. (Eugene Smiley)
> 2. Re: Question about dual booting install. (Mental Patient)
> 3. Re: Question about dual booting install. (JP Toto)
> 4. Re: CS or MIS?? (Adam Turoff)
> 5. Re: CS or MIS?? (Edward M. Corrado)
> 6. Re: City Lawyer: We Don't Store Data on Hard Disk (gabriel
rosenkoetter)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Eugene Smiley" <eugene@esmiley.net>
> To: <plug@lists.phillylinux.org>
> Subject: RE: [PLUG] Question about dual booting install.
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:40:07 -0400
> Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
>
> Dan wrote:
> > one problem that I have run into is that my redhat refuses to
> > mount my win2k/ntfs partition as read/write..even by hand I can
> > only mount it read/only eventhough I specified at the cmd line I
> > wanted the partition mounted as rw. have any clues?
> > Dan
>
> There is a reason for that. Linux can write to FAT partitions, but
> not NTFS partitions. Two different beasts, and FAT is the easier
> to beat. ;)
>
> Eugene
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Question about dual booting install.
> From: Mental Patient <mental@neverlight.com>
> To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> Organization:
> Date: 16 May 2003 12:43:02 -0400
> Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
>
>
> --=-uSNvP7GpTYKNlMWCxrVV
> Content-Type: text/plain
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>
> On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 12:21, Daniel G Roberts wrote:
> > one problem that I have run into is that my redhat refuses to mount
my
> > win2k/ntfs partition as read/write..even by hand I can only mount
it read=
> /only
> > eventhough I specified at the cmd line I wanted the partition
mounted as=
> rw.
> > have any clues?
> > Dan
> >=20
>
> Recompile the kernel, its a compile time option. Readwrite ntfs access
> is dangerous, you can (and I have) hose the partition by writing to
it.
> That said, there are some utilities out there to help mitigate
risk.=20
>
> see linux/Documentation/filesystems/ntfs.txt=20
>
>
>
> --=-uSNvP7GpTYKNlMWCxrVV
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> =7ffZ
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> --=-uSNvP7GpTYKNlMWCxrVV--
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>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:40:52 -0400
> From: JP Toto <viceclown@yahoo.com>
> To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Question about dual booting install.
> Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
>
> Right now (at least in 2.4) the kernel NTFS support is only read. It
can
> write but it's considered "Dangerous" in the kernel compile
menuconfig
> so I imagine it's not particularly mature. Gabe can probably speak to
> this alot better than I can. Redhat probably won't let you mount the
> partition rw because:
>
> a) write support isn't compiled into your kernel (probably the case)
> b) it's a little dangerous to do so Redhat has some administrative
> preventative measure keeping you from doing so.
>
> Either way, mounting an NTFS partition rw in Linux isn't considered
> terribly stable (again, as best I know) so it's not widely supported
by
> distros.
>
> You could recompile your kernel with NTFS writing built in but you're
on
> your own risk-wise then :-)
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Cheers, - JP
>
> Daniel G Roberts wrote:
>
> > one problem that I have run into is that my redhat refuses to mount
my
> > win2k/ntfs partition as read/write..even by hand I can only mount
it read/only
> > eventhough I specified at the cmd line I wanted the partition
mounted as rw.
> > have any clues?
> > Dan
> >
> > "mike.h" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I have a dual boot, Win 2K and Redhat 8, machine. I installed
RedHat first,
> >>partitioning the disk in the process. Basically, I split a large
disk in 2
> >>and put all ext 3 and swap partitions on the "upper" half.
The "lower" half
> >>I left unformatted. Then I installed Win 2K and formatted its
partitions as
> >>ntfs. I put Grub in the boot sector. Works fine.
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: plug-admin@lists.phillylinux.org
> >>[mailto:plug-admin@lists.phillylinux.org]On Behalf Of Donald Shierk
> >>Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 8:35 AM
> >>To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> >>Subject: [PLUG] Question about dual booting install.
> >>
> >>Hi all.
> >>
> >>I am trying to do a dual install with Win 2000 Pro, and RedHat 8.
Would
> >>anyone
> >>mind giving me any pointers or tips regarding the process to do
this? When I
> >>try installing Windows first, it seems there is no option to
partition the
> >>hard drive for the later Linux install. A friend of mine suggested
that I
> >>might
> >>use the RedHat disks first to partition, then reboot, install
windows, then
> >>go back to complete the RedHat install later. Is this feasible? I
can't seem
> >>to get the Linux partitions to "take" in this manner, no matter how
late I
> >>terminate the initial install.
> >>
> >>Thanks very much for any help.
> >>
> >>Don
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> >>
>
>>______________________________________________________________________
___
> >>Philadelphia Linux Users Group --
http://www.phillylinux.org
> >>Announcements - http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug-
announce
> >>General Discussion --
http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >>
>
>>______________________________________________________________________
___
> >>Philadelphia Linux Users Group --
http://www.phillylinux.org
> >>Announcements - http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug-
announce
> >>General Discussion --
http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
_
> > Philadelphia Linux Users Group --
http://www.phillylinux.org
> > Announcements - http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug-
announce
> > General Discussion --
http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
>
> --
> JP Toto
> ViceClown@yahoo.com
> jtoto@members.fsf.org
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:46:59 -0400
> From: Adam Turoff <ziggy@panix.com>
> To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] CS or MIS??
> Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
>
> On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 09:06:51AM -0700, Marc Zucchelli wrote:
> > After reading all those emails on graduate CS courses,
> > I had to ask my question. I have been going to
> > community college for computer info system, and it has
> > always been my plan (ever since taking AP comp sci in
> > high school) to pursue a CS degree. At work, I've
> > been doing alot of MIS style development, and I had an
> > MIS class which really sparked my interest. I was
> > wondering if someone could go over the differences in
> > the two degrees for me, I need to pick one soon!
>
> What do you want to do? What sources do you read in your general
> pursuit of computing?
>
> If you want to spend lots of time writing new, innovative software or
> exploring the cutting edge, then go into CS. The book learning you
get
> in a good CS program is a strong foundation for doing anything with
> computers.
>
> If you want to wrangle large systems, manage big data or use whatever
> software is necessary to keep a decent sized organization running,
> then go into MIS. It's not that MIS is necessarily *not* innovative,
> but rather the innovation in MIS is a totally different nature than
> what you find in CS.
>
> A good CS graduate should be able to function in an MIS environment,
> but it's decidedly unsexy to do that kind of work instead of writing
> the next great Killer App. But an MIS graduate is *occasionally*
> a fish out of water in many CS-type jobs (certainly not as many as
> the CS snobs would have you believe).
>
> > Also, a couple of people that I know taking CS at
> > drexel are telling me things like "dont take MIS, it's
> > a joke degree for people who can't handle the CS! and
> > most companies that do MIS work look for people with
> > CS degrees." Is there any truth behind that at all?
> > Isn't it like comparing apples and oranges?
>
> A lot of people I've met in the field don't have either CS or MIS
> degrees. That might be a result of the big sponge formerly known as
the
> dotcom boom where everyone who could spell 'JavaScript' and 'HTML'
could
> pull down $60K with two week's experience and 2 interviews. YMMV.
>
> Seriously though, some of the most brilliant minds in the field that
> I've met over the years have backgrounds in Math, Physics, Biology,
> Geography, Medicine, Music, History or Japanese. The CS/MIS duality
> just doesn't exist in real life. People have *many* more diverse
> backgrounds.
>
> When I was at Drexel, we had that snobbish attitude about MIS within
the
> CS program (and the MIS students had this perplexingly reverent
attitude
> towards us, at least to our faces). But I suspect that what we didn't
> know is that about half the courseload in a CS program like Drexel's
> won't ever be used once you leave the program. (Good luck identifying
> which half; I was quite surprised when I still needed numerical
> analysis...)
>
> I've had jobs dealing with big data, and I suspect that some of
> those MIS classes would have prepared me better for what I saw in
> industry than learning on the job or deriving everything from first
> principles yet again. Of course, YMMV.
>
> Z.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:53:36 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Edward M. Corrado" <ecorrado@athena.rider.edu>
> To: Philadelphia Linux Users Group <plug@lists.phillylinux.org>
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] CS or MIS??
> Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
>
> Just my 2 cents.....
>
> It depends more what the classes in the degree program are and how
> in-depth they go then the letters in the degree. Some MIS programs do
get
> pretty technical, while other, at least IMHO, have very little
technical
> stuff at all (at least for a degree that involves Information
> Systems). So, I'd say evaluate each program on what classes/experience
> offers rather then what letters.
>
> That said, in a swooping generality:
>
> A MIS degree has a greater management focus - basically it is a
> combination management and technology degree (with many programs more
> management then technology). In theory, you'll get a much better
> understanding of the management side of things, and I would suspect a
> better introduction to computer applications (and supporting them)
from
> the business side of things, where with a CS you'll get a much better
> understanding of the core and underlying languages/building blocks of
> computers and probably very little, by comparison, of the business
end.
>
> As I said, that is a huge generality as different programs, and
different
> tracks within programs, can vary greatly even if the have the same
name.
>
> Which one is better? Well that depends on who you ask, and what you
want
> to do with it. I'd probably argue that something in the middle would
be
> the best, unless you want to focus your career on either end of the
scale.
>
> Personally, if I where higher someone, I wouldn't really care which
degree
> that had of the two (in fact, while I generally would value a college
> education, I'm not sure I'd care weather it was in MIS, CS, or in
> accounting[1]), I'd be more interested in the persons track record.
> However, I suspect that if you want to get into mangement vs. hands on
> coding and such, the MIS might look better, esp. if you do not have
any
> management experience. Likewise, if you want to create your own O/S,
the
> CS degree would probably better prepare you for that.
>
> Ed C. (who has a B.A. Mathematics, Masters of Library Service and is a
> happily employed SysAdmin.)
>
> [1] I used accounting as an example, because the most talented main
frame
> administrator I've ever worked with has a degree in accounting and
not in
> a "technology" field. Of course, I'm partial to people with degrees in
> Mathematics and Library Service - see above :-).
>
>
> On Fri, 16 May 2003, Marc Zucchelli wrote:
>
> > After reading all those emails on graduate CS courses,
> > I had to ask my question. I have been going to
> > community college for computer info system, and it has
> > always been my plan (ever since taking AP comp sci in
> > high school) to pursue a CS degree. At work, I've
> > been doing alot of MIS style development, and I had an
> > MIS class which really sparked my interest. I was
> > wondering if someone could go over the differences in
> > the two degrees for me, I need to pick one soon!
> > Also, a couple of people that I know taking CS at
> > drexel are telling me things like "dont take MIS, it's
> > a joke degree for people who can't handle the CS! and
> > most companies that do MIS work look for people with
> > CS degrees." Is there any truth behind that at all?
> > Isn't it like comparing apples and oranges?
> >
> > Well I'd really appreciate peoples input. Thank you.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> > http://search.yahoo.com
> >
________________________________________________________________________
_
> > Philadelphia Linux Users Group --
http://www.phillylinux.org
> > Announcements - http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug-
announce
> > General Discussion --
http://lists.netisland.net/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:02:02 -0400
> From: gabriel rosenkoetter <gr@eclipsed.net>
> To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] City Lawyer: We Don't Store Data on Hard Disk
> Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
>
>
> --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> You should probably know, Ed, that Barry designs truly large
> (hundreds of millions of rows) Oracle databases for a living. He
> also interfaces a formerly MVS OS/390, now Z/OS (in fact basically
> the same thing with flashy new buzz words; cf, Digital [Open]Unix,
> Tru64 Unix, or whatever else they've called that OS), mainframe with
> Unix (as in, Solaris) and Linux systems for a living. So,
> incidentally, do I, though I haven't been doing it nearly as long
> (Barry's been doing it long enough to have been around when SCO
> actually *sold* an operating system, and it was a good idea to use
> it.)
>
> His arguments, you'll note, are the same as the ones I gave you. And
> not too different from the ones that William Magill (who *also* has
> more than a bit of experience in this department) was giving you
> initially. We are no better informed about the city's computer
> systems than the folks with only a Linux/(free, as in beer) BSD
> background who've been responding, but we've got a frame of
> reference that allows us to make an actually educated guess on just
> what's going on in the city's IT department.
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2003 at 11:51:48PM -0400, Edmund Goppelt wrote:
> > The City lawyer told a series of falsehoods that are obvious to
anyone
> > who knows anything about computers. Do I feel stomped? No. Do I
feel
> > angry that the City didn't even bother to concoct a halfway
plausible
> > lie?
> >=20
> > Absolutely.
>
> Their "lie" is very plausible to both Barry and me. We don't think
> that they're telling the whole truth. We do think that there exists
> work that they don't want to do, that it is, in fact, not totally
> trivial, and that if they don't want to do it, you can be stuck
> asking them to for *years* with no result. It won't get you
> anywhere.
>
> > Ok, so what do you think we should be concentrating on in Court?
>
> You should forget about court, go web scrape the data, and go on
> with getting something useful done. Litigation is not a functional
> process here.
>
> > Why assume? Information about the BRT's computer systems is a matter
> > of public record. The BRT is in the midst of a transition from a
> > Mainframe/VSAM environment to Oracle. According to public records,
> > the BRT currently maintains its property file on both the mainframe
as
> > well as an Oracle 9i database with a web front end:
> >=20
> > http://www.hallwatch.org/rtkasuits/suits/brt/brtweb
>
> Who says their design actually meets that spec? Who says that all of
> the data truly exists in the same place? More importantly WHO CARES?
>
> They said, "No!". You accused them of not knowing how their system's
> designed. They chose to be obstinate. They can be obstinate for an
> indefinite period of time. If what you want is a petty lawsuit
> against the city of Philadelphia, go to town, but whining about it
> at PLUG and getting affidavit's isn't going to help much. If what
> you want is for your web site to provide useful information, you've
> GOT a way to get that information. Go get it, go on with your life.
>
> > Were you aware that the City uses Linux? Check out this photo
taken at
> > the BRT's offices at 34 S. 11th St.:
> >=20
> >
http://www.hallwatch.org/rtkasuits/suits/brt/cama/brt_closet_cama.jpg
>
> So, they've got a text book hand-labeled Linux buried in a closet.
> Are we to assume from that picture that they also still use Lotus
> 1-2-3?
>
> What's more, how does Linux-use prove competence at *anything*? I
> drive a VW Jetta. Does that make me qualified to work on its air
> conditioning system, let alone rebuild its engine?
>
> > 2. The BRT will currently provide any member of the public who can
> > pony up $100 with a CD with their property file on it. The file
> > consists of 73 fields. How much more work could including the two
> > additional fields possibly be?
>
> It means a change in their application. They're a beauracracy. That
> means it takes even more time than it would for a corporation.
>
> > If I lose the suit, I will "spider" the information. But there is a
> > larger issue here. Is it reasonable to expect the City to be honest
> > about what it can and cannot do with its computer systems? I think
it
> > is.
>
> If that's what you want to get done, then you need to have someone
> familiar with how their systems actually work (that is NOT someone
> who's speculating; ALL of us on PLUG are speculating) on your side.
> Nothing else is going to convince any court.
>
> > delinquents. He was able to ftp me the requested records from the
> > mainframe the same day. FWIW, the Revenue Dept. runs their real
> > estate database on DB2 and Cobol.
>
> So? The database design of the system you want information out of
> could very easily be drastically different.
>
> It sounds like the two "fields" you want are actually produced by
> some applying some function to other data. I don't know how simple
> that function may be, but neither do you. Either the data for them
> is already there in the CD-R you can have burned, or it's not in the
> DB in a static form. That's all, again, speculation.
>
> > > Do you REALLY know the data is SQL accessible, or are you
guessing? =20
> > See the contract. It specifies Oracle 9i.
>
> I believe you have misunderstood Barry's question. Neither he nor I
> really care about the answer, though, so...
>
> > Barry, thank you for your comments. You may well be right about the
> > disk being a side issue. The important thing for me is that the
City
> > come clean about just how easy or hard it is for them to provide the
> > public with copies of public records stored on their computers.
>
> That's all well and good. But you've asked a political question of a
> technical list, which is why you're getting responses like Barry's
> and mine. To people like us, there's an obvious method to get what
> we would want if we were in your position, which is the data. You
> want to prove a point. I can't even conceive of caring enough about
> proving petty city politicians wrong to go to the effort; it seems
> vaguely reminiscent of pissing up a pole to me.
>
> --=20
> gabriel rosenkoetter
> gr@eclipsed.net
>
> --rwEMma7ioTxnRzrJ
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>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> plug mailing list
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>
>
> End of plug Digest
>
>
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