Re: [PLUG] Re: TMDA (was Re: whitelisting for POP3)

["Mark M. Hoffman" <mhoffman@lightlink.com>]

* Arthur S. Alexion <arthur@alexion.com> [2004-03-25 15:42:59 -0500]:

> On Wednesday 24 March 2004 11:28 pm, Mark M. Hoffman wrote:
> >  I can appreciate the "it's obnoxious" argument; so what can be done to
> > make it less obnoxious?
> >
> > But first, exactly what about it is obnoxious?
> 
> Those of us who use email for business or things other than just personal 
> correspondence get a fair amount of ¨unsolicited¨ legitimate mail from people 
> we may not now know, but who we may want to know.  Sometimes we spend a lot 
> of money and effort to get these people to contact us.  After potentially 
> succeeding in that effort the last thing we want to do is tick someone we are 
> trying to reach off by placing barriers to contact.
> 
> It gets really obnoxious when applied to list mail, because lists are 
> configured in lots of ways, many of which preserve the original sender.  If a 
> lot of people subscribe to a challenge/response system on a large list, then 
> anyone who posts gets a bunch of challenges in response -- often from people 
> he has never heard of.

With all due respect, I think you missed the point of my question.

The problems you mention are all "accidental".  One shouldn't use C/R for a
marketing email address, nor should one generate challenges in response to
a mailing list.  I acknowledge these problems, but they are merely bugs in
an implementation.  They can be debugged without changing the nature of
the system.  I am not concerned with accidental problems. [1]

An "essential" problem with C/R, is how to receive legitimate email that is
computer generated, like ebay notifications or online shopping receipts...
especially the receipts, since they often originate from a domain that is
nothing like the domain of the online storefront; therefore you can't
even whitelist them ahead of time.

Another essential problem with C/R, is that a spoofed spam will generate a
challenge to a completely unrelated and innocent third party.  This is the
problem that keeps me from using it.

Essential problems can sometimes be attacked by stepping outside the system.
E.g. I think SPF could attack one of the essential problems of C/R, and the
combination of the two could be a pretty serviceable system.  But I don't
understand the criticisms of SPF itself (that were mentioned on this list)
well enough to argue whether they are accidental or essential.

So, I occasionally tune my filters and mostly hammer the delete key just 
like everyone else.  <sigh>

> The insidious thing about spam is that it can obfuscate legitimate mail, 
> resulting in overlooked important messages.  Then again, paper junk mail has 
> started to do the same.  Who hasn't tossed an important piece of mail that 
> got stuck between some junk flyer?  The paradox of easing communication -- be 
> it spam or mail merge -- is that it results in an overload of communication 
> that makes it harder for the recipient to get important messages.

A corollary: those with the most numerous means of communications (you know,
that friend of yours w/ 7 phone numbers) are the most difficult to contact.

[1] Except: a *preponderance* of accidental problems (or a tendency in that
direction) can itself constitute an essential problem.

Regards,

-- 
Mark M. Hoffman
mhoffman@lightlink.com

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