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Re: [PLUG] Verizon blocking port 25
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Alas, the problem of he commons. It is both bad when corporate hacks
can control same or when we must let government intervene.
bs
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, John Kreno <john.kreno@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: John Kreno <john.kreno@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Verizon blocking port 25
> To: bergman@merctech.com, "Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List" <plug@lists.phillylinux.org>
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:38 AM
> Really, when it comes down to it. Despite
> the laws that may exist, it is up to the individuals in
> society to police themselves. I guess that's what I was
> getting at. I mean anymore you do have some very socialist
> avenues in the US that you could persue, but even they
> require some intervention from the person seeking them. The
> picture you paint is one of state control. I don't see
> why anyone would do that. The internet is one of those last
> bastions of freedom.
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 5:56 PM,
> <bergman@merctech.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> In the message dated: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:59:44 EDT,
>
> The pithy ruminations from John Kreno on
>
> <Re: [PLUG] Verizon blocking port 25> were:
>
>
>
> =>
>
> => Hi,
>
> =>
>
> => Long time listener, first time caller. I think even
> though that Verizon in
>
> => this case is a residential provider, that an ISP
> should not filter any ports
>
> => for any reason. It should be the customer's
> responsibility to perform due
>
>
>
> Absolutely, in the best of all worlds.
>
>
>
> However, the customers, by-and-large, are clueless and
> incapable of keeping
>
> their machines from becoming virus-infected zombies that
> steal passwords and
>
> spew out spam. Excluding people on this list, of course.
> :)
>
>
>
> => diligence. The internet should be as open as
> possible, much like the real
>
> => world. But the end user should be
> diligent to keep their own end points
>
> => secure.
>
> =>
>
> => - John
>
> =>
>
>
>
>
>
> What "real world" do you live in? To perpetuate a
> flawed but common analogy, if
>
> the "Internet" is a highway system, then
> high-speed access from Verizon (and
>
> Comcast, etc.) is much like a private toll road. The last
> time I looked, those
>
> roads had very specific regulations--not just in terms of
> cost, but in terms of
>
> the size, width, height, weight, speed, and payload of your
> vehicle.
>
>
>
> Think of an typical home computer with a broadband
> connection as a pickup truck
>
> traveling down the road. The driver's got a birthday
> card for Dear Old Mom
>
> sitting on the front seat next to him, and he wants to get
> onto the private
>
> toll road to deliver to the card to Mom. Unfortunately,
> he's also got a dripping
>
> load of asbestos, used motor oil, and rotting kitchen
> scraps that unscrupulous
>
> waste disposal firms (hackers) toosed into the back of the
> truck when he wasn't
>
> looking. The toll taker can smell the truck coming before
> he even approaches the
>
> EZ-Pass lane, and flags him over. That's what network
> egress filtering is like.
>
>
>
>
>
> [DISCLAIMER]
>
> I'm not a Verizon customer... I haven't read the
> details of their filtering &
>
> port blocking..... I put in some effort to get around
> (tunning through)
>
> Comcast's port 25 blocks, so it's not as if I like
> the concept, but I think
>
> it's got some practical benefits.
>
> [/DISCLAIMER]
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> => On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Randall A Sindlinger
> <
>
> => rsindlin+plug@seas.upenn.edu
> <rsindlin%2Bplug@seas.upenn.edu>>
> wrote:
>
>
> =>
>
> => > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 03:48:41PM -0400, jeff
> wrote:
>
> => > > Greg Helledy wrote:
>
> => > > > need to use port 587 when on the
> Verizon network and 25 elsewhere.
>
> => > What
>
> => > > > exactly is Verizon achieving by doing
> this
>
> => > >
>
> => > > annoying the most people possible.
>
> => > > That is apparently its own reward.
>
> => > >
>
> => >
>
> => > It might be annoying, but that's not the
> goal. By far, most people connect
>
> => > to port 25 *un*encrypted. (I know all of you
> manually configured your email
>
> => > clients to use StartTLS or SSL, though, right?)
>
> => >
>
> => > As far as packet sniffing goes, port 25 is the
> best place to pick up
>
> => > people's
>
> => > usernames and passwords, since its default mode
> is cleartext. Once someone
>
> => > has that, at best they can send _authenticated_
> spam using that account.
>
> => > Or worse, they can start trying that username/pw
> on every banking, social
>
> => > networking, and shopping site they can find,
> and, well, try *that* for
>
> => > annoying.
>
> => >
>
> => > Quite frankly, I think Verizon is behind the
> curve on this. Anybody that
>
> => > has
>
> => > thought much about security has mostly already
> done this, afaik.
>
> => >
>
> => > -Randall
>
> => >
>
> => >
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> => > Philadelphia Linux Users Group --
>
> => > http://www.phillylinux.org
>
> => > Announcements -
>
> => > http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
>
> => > General Discussion --
>
> => > http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
> => >
>
> =>
>
> =>
>
> =>
>
> => --
>
> => John Kreno
>
> =>
>
> => "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties
> for a little temporary safety
>
> => deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben
> Franklin
>
> =>
>
> => --0015174be3660059e6047211bbc4
>
> => Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> => Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> =>
>
> => Hi,<br><br>=A0Long time listener, first
> time caller. I think even though th=
>
> => at Verizon in this case is a residential provider,
> that an ISP should not f=
>
> => ilter any ports for any reason. It should be the
> customer's responsibil=
>
> => ity to perform due diligence. The internet should be
> as open as possible, m=
>
> => uch like the real world. But the end user should be
> diligent to keep their =
>
> => own end points secure.<br>
>
> => <br>- John<br><br><div
> class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at
> 4:45 P=
>
> => M, Randall A Sindlinger <span
> dir=3D"ltr"><<a
> href=3D"mailto:rsindlin%2B=
>
> => plug@seas.upenn.edu">rsindlin+plug@seas.upenn.edu</a>></span>
> wrote:<br>=
>
> => <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"
> style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
>
> => 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left:
> 1ex;">
>
> => <div class=3D"im">On Wed, Aug 26,
> 2009 at 03:48:41PM -0400, jeff wrote:<br>
>
> => > Greg Helledy wrote:<br>
>
> => > > need to use port 587 when on the
> Verizon network and 25 elsewhere=
>
> => . =A0What<br>
>
> => > > exactly is Verizon achieving by
> doing this<br>
>
> => ><br>
>
> => > annoying the most people
> possible.<br>
>
> => > That is apparently its own
> reward.<br>
>
> => ><br>
>
> => <br>
>
> => </div>It might be annoying, but that's
> not the goal. =A0By far, most pe=
>
> => ople connect<br>
>
> => to port 25 *un*encrypted. (I know all of you manually
> configured your email=
>
> => <br>
>
> => clients to use StartTLS or SSL, though,
> right?)<br>
>
> => <br>
>
> => As far as packet sniffing goes, port 25 is the best
> place to pick up people=
>
> => 's<br>
>
> => usernames and passwords, since its default mode is
> cleartext. =A0Once someo=
>
> => ne<br>
>
> => has that, at best they can send _authenticated_ spam
> using that account.<br=
>
> => >
>
> => Or worse, they can start trying that username/pw on
> every banking, social<b=
>
> => r>
>
> => networking, and shopping site they can find, and,
> well, try *that* for<br>
>
> => annoying.<br>
>
> => <br>
>
> => Quite frankly, I think Verizon is behind the curve on
> this. =A0Anybody that=
>
> => has<br>
>
> => thought much about security has mostly already done
> this, afaik.<br>
>
> => <font color=3D"#888888"><br>
>
> => -Randall<br>
>
> =>
> </font><div><div></div><div
> class=3D"h5"><br>
>
> =>
> ___________________________________________________________________________=
>
> => <br>
>
> => Philadelphia Linux Users Group =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -- =A0
> =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D=
>
> => "http://www.phillylinux.org";
> target=3D"_blank">http://www.phillylinux.org</=
>
>
> => a><br>
>
> => Announcements - <a href=3D"http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/pl=
>
> => ug-announce" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinf=
>
> => o/plug-announce</a><br>
>
> => General Discussion =A0-- =A0 <a href=3D"http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailma=
>
> => n/listinfo/plug"
> target=3D"_blank">http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/lis=
>
> => tinfo/plug</a><br>
>
> =>
> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br
> clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>John
> Kreno<=
>
> => br><br>"Those who would sacrifice
> essential liberties for a little tem=
>
> => porary safety deserve neither liberty nor
> safety." - Ben Franklin<br>
>
> =>
>
> =>
>
> => --0015174be3660059e6047211bbc4--
>
> =>
>
> => --===============0328640799==
>
> => Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
>
> => MIME-Version: 1.0
>
> => Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> => Content-Disposition: inline
>
> =>
>
> =>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> => Philadelphia Linux Users Group --
> http://www.phillylinux.org
>
> => Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
>
> => General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
> =>
>
> => --===============0328640799==--
>
> =>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
>
> Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org
>
> Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
>
> General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Kreno
>
> "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a
> little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
> safety." - Ben Franklin
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Philadelphia Linux Users Group
> -- http://www.phillylinux.org
> Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
> General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
___________________________________________________________________________
Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org
Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
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