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> ruled that Microsoft violated some law or other, but I disagree with any
> nutball judge, who probably doesn't know his ass from a parallel port, who
> claims that Microsoft has a monopoly in anything.
That's a nasty assumption to make about people. We all can learn. The
judges in this case studied up a lot and learned a lot. The more the judge
learned, the more he thought that there was a case. In the beginning, he
was looking to settle fast. MS changed his mind by very childish, yes
childish tactics. If they were common thugs instead of rich businessmen,
they would have been held in contempt of court. Had MS been a sole
proprietorship, they would have been in jail. Yes, people go to jail for
things that they did.
> This group itself is proof that they don't. Ever hear of Linux, BSD,
No it's not. Be corp tried to GIVE their os away as a dual boot w/ Dell,
and Dell refused. If you can't give your product away, then what further
proof do you need? Dell wanted it, Be wanted it. Consumers would have
benefitted as it was going to be a dual boot. Consumers who didn't care
about Be could have ignored the tiny partition, and it would have
automatically booted to windows. Obviously, the computer market was as
free, at the
time, as Russia was in the 80's, thanks to MS.
> Solaris? Ever hear that Apache, on some variant of Unix, is the most
> common web server on the internet? Ever hear of IBM selling servers that
> run Linux instead of a Microsoft OS?
The courts have helped in this. I'm going to laugh out loud if someone
tries to give MS credit for this.
> We all know that Microsoft is not the only maker of operating systems.
That's beside the point. Doesn't have anything to do with monopoly.
> They certainly are NOT the best - they have competition, so they can't, by
> definition, have a monopoly in operating systems. Do they have a monopoly
But if the best doesn't win out, then it's clearly not an efficient
market. How many times do we have to go over this?
> in anything else? I don't think so.
Define monopoly.
Fred
>
> Wayne
>
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Sam Hunting wrote:
>
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:29:36 -0500 (EST)
> > > From: Jon Galt <jongalt@pinn.net>
> > > To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] MS Outlaws? (was Fwd: CG: Windows XP warning)
> > > Reply-To: plug@lists.phillylinux.org
> > >
> > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, gabriel rosenkoetter wrote:
> > >
> > > > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:03:24PM -0500, Jon Galt wrote:
> > > > > Well you make a good argument that MS did not contribute to cheap
> > > > > hardware - of course I was leaning that way anyhow. But what is
> > > > > this about Microsoft "breaking the law"?
> > > >
> > > > Your disagreement with anti-trust laws doesn't make them go away.
> > >
> > > Granted.
> > >
> > > To be honest, I pay little attention to governmental attacks on
> > > private companies - as well as government giving private companies
> > > advantages over their competitors. I'm sure Micro$oft has been on
> > the
> > > receiving end of both of these things.
> > >
> > > I was under the impression that MS legal troubles, convictions, or
> > > whatever had been overturned. Judicial orders rescinded, or
> > > whatever. Can someone point me to a quick rundown of the events?
> >
> > Wayne:
> >
> > Here's a useful site:
> >
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/microsoft
> >
> > Did MS break the law? Yes.
> >
> > http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/ms-conclusions.html
> >
> > Upon consideration of the Court's Findings of Fact ...the proposed
> > conclusions of law submitted by the parties, the briefs of amici
> > curiae, and the argument of counsel thereon, the Court concludes
> > that Microsoft maintained its monopoly power by anticompetitive
> > means and attempted to monopolize the Web browser market, both in
> > violation of § 2. Microsoft also violated § 1 of the Sherman Act by
> >
> > unlawfully tying its Web browser to its operating system.
> >
> > Like Wayne, I don't keep track of all the detail -- EXCEPT when it
> > affects me personally, which MS did. From the Findings of Fact:
> >
> > http://usvms.gpo.gov/ms-findings2.html
> >
> > 411. Many of the tactics that Microsoft has employed have also
> > harmed consumers indirectly by unjustifiably distorting
> > competition.
> > The actions that Microsoft took against Navigator hobbled a form of
> >
> > innovation that had shown the potential to DEPRESS THE APPLICATIONS
> >
> > BARRIER TO ENTRY SUFFICIENTLY TO ENABLE OTHER FIRMS TO COMPETE
> > EFFECTIVELY AGAINST MICROSOFT IN THE MARKET FOR INTEL-COMPATIBLE
> > PC OPERATING SYSTEMS. THAT COMPETITION WOULD HAVE CONDUCED TO
> > CONSUMER CHOICE AND NURTURED INNOVATION. [capitals mine]
> >
> > The findings of fact (harm to consumers, ie, me) and the findings of
> > law (illegal exercise of monopoly power) have not been overturned. What
> > is at issue is the penalty of MS's actions. In that sense, MS's
> > troubles may be said to be at an end, as the current Justice Department
> > (though not some states) is willing to settle for weak penalties.
> >
> > S.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > <!-- www.etopicality.com
> > www.goose-works.org
> >
> > "A human is a topic map's way of making another topic map."
> >
> > -->
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> > http://sports.yahoo.com
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > Philadelphia Linux Users Group - http://www.phillylinux.org
> > Announcements-http://lists.phillylinux.org/mail/listinfo/plug-announce
> > General Discussion - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mail/listinfo/plug
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Philadelphia Linux Users Group - http://www.phillylinux.org
> Announcements-http://lists.phillylinux.org/mail/listinfo/plug-announce
> General Discussion - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mail/listinfo/plug
>
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