William H. Magill on Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:51:06 -0400


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Re: [PLUG] OS 8.6 to 9 and X

On Sunday, June 29, 2003, at 03:53 PM, Adam Turoff wrote:
On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 12:13:39PM -0400, Paul wrote:
Adam Turoff wrote:
Yes, you need OS 9 to run in classic mode. It comes on the OS X install
CDs.
You can also install OS X without OS 9, which disables classic mode. 

OK.  So we could upgrade from 8.6 to 9 even without installing 10 and
without reinstalling applications?

Yes, this is the normal upgrade path. (I would do a clean install anyway.)

Note that you really need to have 9.1 to run with Jaguar. 9.1 was a separate CD, but 9.2 (the last OS9 release) is a "software update" update.

The last two Macs I purchased had OS 9 and OS X pre-installed, and
booted into OS X by default. I don't know the secret magic key sequence
to boot into OS 9, so I never booted into it.

There is no magic key sequence. In the System Preferences control panel, there is a panel called "startup disk." You select the OS9 partition and reboot.

To get back to OS X from OS 9, you do exactly the same thing.

I reinstalled Jaguar on one of my macs about 7-8 months ago, and it
looked like it was attempting to install OS 9 for Classic (before I
stopped it).

The OS X distribution does not include OS 9. You need to separately install OS 9 from the OS 9 CDs. OS X assumes that you have pre-installed OS 9.

Depending upon where you got it ...
The OS X box sold in the store does NOT contain OS 9. You have to purchase it separately, or send in a coupon.

Systems pre-installed with both OS X and OS 9 SHOULD ship with CDs for both OS 9 and OS X.

Current systems, which will boot OS X only do have a different scheme, and it is possible that the OS X CDs from those machine do include OS 9. I haven't yet gotten a box that won't boot into 9. However, you should still be able to select custom install and eliminate the Classic mode.

For the record, if you format a disk for HFS+ and *don't* put the MacOS
extension partitions in the front of the drive, OS9 and Classic can't be
installed; installing OS X goes faster because it doesn't install two
OSes at once. :-)

Yes.  OS 8.6, OS 9 and OS X all run on HFS+ partitions.  I don't know
what the OS X install will do to the OS 8.6 system folder, but you
should be able to install 9/X without reformatting.

Oh, I thought 9 and 10 would need to be on seperate partitions or something.

Both use HFS+, so just installing it on an existing 8.6 partition shouldn't
be an issue. Just make sure you back everything up first. :-)

The issue of separate partitions for 9 and X is basically one of "cleanliness."

By keeping the two OS and their respective applications separate, it makes it easier to recover your disk space when you want to get rid of 9.

I don't know. Most of his apps run under 8.6. Maybe he got something that only runs under OS X?

Is just going from 8.6 to 9 worth the trouble?

Apps that run under 8.6 may or may not run under OS9. They definitely won't run under OS X.
If they do run under 9, then they will probably run in classic mode under OS X. However, if the app does any kind of I/O (like fax programs, modem programs and the like) then they will not run under OS X. There are probably OS X versions of them.


The following is "Apple jargon" for the run-time libraries and APIs involved in three different major releases of the Operating system:

8.6 programs are virtually ALL "classic apps." Programs written under 9 may be either "classic apps" or "carbon" apps. If they are classic apps, they will probably run in "classic mode" under OS X, however, if they are "carbon" apps, thy should run under either OS 9 or OS X. "Cocoa" apps will run only under OS X.

As far as the G3 towers are concerned, there are a number of "issues" with different models. Make certain that you do the appropriate Firmware upgrades.

Also, on the issue of memory. Jaguar (OS X 10.2) is EXTREMELY memory sensitive. Out of spec memory is deadly, as is memory that has bad cells. Both of these problems are totally "invisible" to OS 9. However, the tuning which has been done on Jaguar, will cause kernel panics and boot failures. If you have third party memory, the probability is that it has a lifetime warranty, and if you tell them that you can't boot Jaguar, they will just swap it for you.

Also, OS X will not install with less than 128 meg. It acts like it will install with 64 meg, but it simply can't do it. (I've tried waiting 12 hours for the thrashing to pass, but it never does.) 512 meg memory sims for the G3s are about $50 the last time I looked. There should be sales coming up for MWNYC in a couple of weeks. (I use SAtech.com.)

T.T.F.N.
William H. Magill
# Beige G3 - Rev A motherboard - 768 Meg
# Flat-panel iMac (2.1) 800MHz - Super Drive - 768 Meg
# PWS433a [Alpha 21164 Rev 7.2 (EV56)- 64 Meg]- Tru64 5.1a
magill@mcgillsociety.org
magill@acm.org
magill@mac.com

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