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Re: [PLUG] VoiceNet Rumors?
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The problem really becomes a case for case basis.
If there is an authentic victim and I don't really care if she (or he)
is an American citizen or a fourteen year old child of the streets from
Brazil, a crime has been committed and the burden is on the receiver of
tainted goods to justify possession. Guilty knowledge in the transmission
is actionable. My objections were purely to where the context was not
purient except when viewed through particularily narrow lenses such as
those of certain religious types with certain adgendas.
bs
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Jon Nelson wrote:
> Gabriel,
>
> First I would like to say that I respect your opinion and think you are
> very insightful and levelheaded.
>
> gabriel rosenkoetter said:
> > On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:05:51PM -0500, Jon Nelson wrote:
> >> We _WANT_ to be punishing the people who abuse the children in the first
> >> place! I wish it were that easy. Due to the inherent and global nature
> >> of the Internet it makes finding the abusers very difficult indeed.
> >
> > I believe that it is inappropriately assumptive on your part to
> > place the label "abusers" on defendants in child pornography cases,
> > even those that have been decided by appeal. (I'm fine with your
> > labeling as abusers those who have been convicted by a jury.)
> >
> > It isn't your place, as a law enforcement officer or as a citizen,
> > to decide what is and isn't offensive on an international scale.
> > Please try to be cognizant of that.
>
> I was in no way trying to imply that. By the use of global I was trying
> to get across how difficult to find people who prey on children.
>
> Now I know that the law says under 18 and there are provisions for
> individuals who are 16 and over to consent to sex (in PA). I think I have
> been pretty consistent in referring to these victims as children. I have
> seen children as young as infants being sexually abused. They certainly
> cannot give consent. I have seen a lot children (under 12) in sexually
> violent and outrageous acts things they should have never been exposed to
> until they were adults.
>
> The older the children get the more arguments as to whether they can
> consent or not come into play.
>
> As a private citizen I believe that the adults doing these things to
> children are "abusers". As a law enforcement officer I know and believe
> that everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but it is
> my job to accuse whom I have probable cause to arrest.
>
> > On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:06:09PM -0500, Jon Nelson wrote:
> >> I find the above statement very offensive and the analogy incredulous.
> >> It
> >> is more offensive to the child victims.
> >
> > For whose definition of "offensive" and whose definition of
> > "victim"?
>
> My definition of offensive since I said it offended me. The children's
> definition of "victim" whom feel they have been exploited by these acts.
>
> >
> > (I think you and I mostly agree about what offends us personally. I
> > refuse to contend that my personal opinion is Right, though, and it
> > bothers me to see you doing so.)
> >
> >> The sale of alcohol under prohibition was a "victimless" crime.
> >
> > I don't think that's true either. If you go looking for victims
>
> "Victimless" (notice the quotes) in that, unlike child pornography, when
> alcohol was sold under prohibition there wasn't an immediately apparent
> victim.
>
> >
> >> Child pornography involves the sexual exploitation of children who
> >> aren't
> >> doing anything voluntarily.
> >
> > I don't understand how you can make that statement. Who are you to
> > say that individuals under the age of eighteen are incapable of
> > mature decisions? US law *does* say this, and obligates you, as a PA
> > state trooper, to enfoce it. Please don't confuse US law with
> > Truth, not as an individual and especially not in your role as a law
> > enforcement officer. They aren't the same thing. Some times they're
> > close enough (as they probably are in the case of child pornography),
> > some times they're wildly separate.
>
> Please see my above comments in regards to children and mature decisions.
>
> I always seek the Truth, both professionally and personally.
>
>
> Jon
>
> --
> Trooper Jon S. Nelson, Linux Certified Admin., CCNA
> Pa. State Police, Bureau of Criminal Investigation
> Computer Crimes Unit
> Work: 610.344.4471 Cell/Page: 866.284.1603
> jonelson@state.pa.us
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org
> Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
> General Discussion -- http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>
___________________________________________________________________________
Philadelphia Linux Users Group -- http://www.phillylinux.org
Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
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