brent timothy saner on 17 Feb 2015 11:50:27 -0800

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Re: [PLUG] PLUG West - "systemd: The Anti-BusyBox" by Rich Freeman

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On 02/17/2015 02:36 PM, Rich Mingin (PLUG) wrote:
> Not contradicting any of your points, Rich, and it's true, Debian stable
> is still on init, but Debian testing (jessie) is frozen and defaulting
> to systemd, it's quite hard to avoid having it pulled in. Once Jessie is
> forked as Debian 8.0 and released, it'll be down to pretty much Gentoo
> offering non-systemd installs, and having tried to make a systemd-free
> install last year, there are lots of things pulling it in, even on
> Gentoo. A lot of the pushback, I think, is because it feels like a
> non-choice, that the distros have decided on systemd and there's no
> alternative, no way for a mere user to register their opinions and
> desires on this issue.
> Rather than defending the merits of systemd, it would probably be more
> fruitful to address this feeling of powerlessness and passenger-hood.

Can one find any distros still offering hotplugd/devfs, or did they all
force us into using udev?

those totalitarian *bastards*.

i jest, but i remember a conversation almost exactly like this one,
about devfs and hotplugd being "shunted out" of the widespread linux
experience in favor of udev. same basic three camps- first camp embraces
new changes and wants it to be worked on as much as possible to fully
stabilize and become production-ready, because it allows technology to
remain relevant in the evolving electronic landscape. second camp fears
it because change is scary (and yes, a pain in the ass/costly).

third camp doesn't really care either way as long as it works.

history just repeats itself. i think people are really making a big deal
out of nothing, personally.
it also seems to be totally ignored that you can still keep your
precious init scripts even with systemd by just writing a wrapper unit
(which is, literally, what- 3-5 lines?).

but all this to say that sometimes a new thing comes along, and we can
either embrace it and seek to make it the best it can be, or fear it and
bemoan it while desperately clutching our favourites with bony cold
hands, never allowing progress to take foothold. i for one, however, am
glad i am not typing this on a VT-100.
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