[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: BerkeleyLUG Google Groups (list) - backup(s) & ... (possibly) migrate to ...
From: goossbears <acohen36@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: BerkeleyLUG Google Groups (list) - backup(s) & ...
(possibly) migrate to ...
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 22:29:49 -0700 (PDT)
Chris and others,
From what I've been reading on other mailing lists, not all is
sweet-smelling roses as far as migrating mailing-list(s) to Mailman using
Yahoo.com addresses.
A big thorn with using Yahoo.com is its "DMARC badness" as Rick put it in
his conspire mailing-list post '(forw) [skeptic] me.com is shooting Skeptic
subscribers in the foot w/DMARC (was: I have questions...)' at
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2021-April/011582.html
DKIM/DMARC "badness" is an issue for lists, be it Mailman, or even
Google Groups! ... as [Pi.]BerkeleyLUG is presently using.
Modern lists generally kludge around that ... because, though not
pretty, that's effective, and there really isn't a better solution
for that "badness". E.g. @yahoo.com which has a quite strict policy
on DKIM. So, e.g. even Google Groups has to kludge around that:
From: "'Christian Peeples' via BerkeleyLUG" <berkeleylug@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: berkeleylug@googlegroups.com
To: <berkeleylug@googlegroups.com>
X-Original-Sender: chris_peeples@yahoo.com
X-Original-From: Christian Peeples <chris_peeples@yahoo.com>
Mailing-list: list berkeleylug@googlegroups.com; contact
berkeleylug+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <berkeleylug.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/berkeleylug/post>,
<mailto:berkeleylug@googlegroups.com>
That's what we've got in headers ... after reformatting a bit and
stripping out what's not highly relevant. That's what Google Groups
itself does. Though the Original Header From: and perhaps also Sender:
are buried in some X-Original- headers, most folks will never see that.
If, in their typically mail client, they take actions to
reply or reply all or reply to list, they get
berkeleylug@googlegroups.com and/or
https://groups.google.com/group/berkeleylug/post
and absolutely noting gives them a simple means to reply directly
to the original author of the posting if they so wish to ...
though some response actions may carry part of that along in the
Full Name data - essentially comment data, so a response may end up
going
To: "'Christian Peeples' via BerkeleyLUG" <berkeleylug@googlegroups.com>
but the email address is still the list posting address. Chris's email
address ends up relatively inaccessible in the X-Original- header(s).
Anyway, here's that messages as it is on Google Groups itself:
https://groups.google.com/g/berkeleylug/c/Xe9u548NqKI/m/aTZzIxTECAAJ
... but there, Google Groups doesn't even offer a "Show Original" or
the like ... unless perhaps one is logged in with a Google [Groups]
account.
Well, Mailman does similar to kludge around DKIM and the like ... though not
quite as egregiously as Google Groups, which really clearly shows they
want all responses to go thorough Google Groups - whether that's one's
preference or not. Even replying to "'Christian Peeples' via BerkeleyLUG"
would end up posting to the Google Groups list.
Christian Peeples <chris_peeples@yahoo.com>
isn't even among the options Google Groups offers at all for replying.
Contrast that with Mailman ... non-ancient 2.x series, that kludges
around the DKIM etc. badness reasonably effectively (and I'd think 3.x
likely does so as well or maybe even a bit better). Let's see ...
This one
https://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-test/2021/000061.html
From: @yahoo.com
email address.
This is what the Mailman 2.x on the BALUG VM does with that:
To: BALGU-Test <balug-test@lists.balug.org>
List-Post: <mailto:balug-test@lists.balug.org>
From: Michael Paoli via BALUG-Test <balug-test@lists.balug.org>
Reply-To: Michael Paoli <michael1cat@yahoo.com>
Sender: BALUG-Test <balug-test-bounces@lists.balug.org>
Note that reply will still go to the original sender as Mailman added
Reply-To: and set that to the original sender (that takes precedence
over From: for reply). A reply/post to list will go to the list
posting address. Mailman isn't trying to hijack the interaction and
coerce you to send all data thorough it for data mining and
advertising or whatever. In fact if the relevant parties and MTAs
are doing encryption (generally recommended as feasible these days),
very possible none other than receiving and sending parties (and
their hosts and MTAs) may be privy to the communication. "Of course"
if it goes to the list, well, that's generally many recipients and
publicly archived - but presumably that would be intentional by sender,
rather than accidental.
Contrast that with the case of Google Groups, where one is pretty
much coerced to have the data go to Google Groups list. And Google
Groups doesn't care if your list is public or not ... it goes to/through
the list, and Google can mine that data - even if it's closed off from
the rest of The Internet.
Hmm, thought I'd mentioned more about DKIM & such recently on this
list ... but no, ... else-list. Somewhat different scenario - and
different list, and presently located yet somewhere else ... but you
can read some more about the DKIM bits here:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2021q2/015246.html
... and likewise on some of Ricks earlier posts too, which Aaron
also pointed out.
Anyway, my earlier about potentially migrating this list:
https://groups.google.com/g/berkeleylug/c/Xe9u548NqKI/m/YUoXiQm4CAAJ
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BerkeleyLUG" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to berkeleylug+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/berkeleylug/20210507001645.110568dad0tdlqck%40webmail.rawbw.com.