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Re: [Plug] telnetting around a firewall - non-technical considerations
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If all you want to do is open up a connection to your box, why not
modify telnet to run on port 80 on your home machine? I mean... it would
work, wouldn't it? It also wouldn't take long. Or setup ssh to run on
port 80, or 110, or whatever. Hell, I dunno. Blah. I'm a moron. Here's
what I know:
Love is a prison.
Mental
--
When I cried out loud
tearful but still proud
mesmerized and crippled by despair
On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Nick R wrote:
> Just to place things in perspective: I'm a current high school student
> putting up with beaurocrats making technology decisions and watching the
> horrible consequences as incompetant consultants implement these poor
> decisions (and if my english is less than perfect right now, I'm a bit
> groggy).
>
> >Just to place things in perspective: I'm a former high school teacher and
> >I'm currently the technical lead for a technical education facility (and
> >I've been involved in the decision to implement a proxy server on our
> >classrooms).
> >
> >I'm addressing this because I really have a problem with the attitude
> >expressed here, and I really don't like PLUG being used as a resource for
> >it.
> >
> >On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Nick R wrote:
> >
> > > First, there's no rule that you can't telnet out. It's just been
> >disabled at
> > > the proxy level.
> >
> >With MS Proxy, if you want to allow telnet, you can. This does require a
> >bit of software on the client system, but it's very much possible. If
> >it's disabled, they don't want you doing it.
>
> Yes, but in a we don't really understand the implications, we're just
> paranoid and make decisions based on little information kind of way. There
> are legitimate reasons to do what they're doing, however in this case it's
> just consultants who are suits reccomending a level of paranoia that fits in
> with this conservative community, but that they don't understand either. The
> lead consultant actually referred to PCIA cards and I doubt he's talking
> about some new kind of PCMCIA/PCI hybrid here. This is the guy who decides
> what to reccomend to beaurocrats who have an even looser grip on technology
> than he.
>
> > > Second, no, they're just idiots. I'm in the loop here and they're
> >paranoid
> > > idiots i.e. they're trying to make a kiosk part of which involves a map
> >of
> > > the school through which information can be accessed. Aside from the
> >general
> > > Badness of such a proposition, they are holding on it for now because of
> >the
> > > fear that somebody will perform a Columbine with the aid of said map.
> > > Overlooked of course is the fact that the blue prints to the school are
> > > publicly available to all and there is a map given to each student in
> >the
> > > form of an agenda book.
> >
> >Given some of the press flying around, I can see some paranoia.
> >
> >Now you seem to think that they're making a decision based on uniformed
> >paranoia. Instead of just saying "screw you, I'm going to do it anyway",
> >doesn't it make more sense to try to inform them, rationally with
> >something other than just your (supposed) opinion? Hacking around their
> >firewall will do nothing more than vindicate their paranoia, and possibly
> >convince them that being connected at all is a bad idea.
>
> Nah, not really. The chances that they'll find out are very small as are the
> chances that I'd go to them, make a rational argument, and get them to
> change their policy. I can understand where you're coming from, but in this
> area I have more expertise. I know the system I'm dealing with.
>
> >And as far as information availability goes, there's a matter of ease of
> >access and visibility. You should try to be a bit more open-minded. Not
> >everyone is familiar and comfortable with the Internet and computers. It
> >is human nature to fear that which we are not familiar with.
> >
> > > Third, bah! They'd never figure it out and if they did, they'd just tell
> >me
> > > not to do it again. I've gotten that for an actual offence that put them
> > > into a legally questionable position which I won't get into right now.
> >For
> > > something as simple as telnetting out into my box at home they won't do
> > > anything.
> >
> >You know, you're asking for trouble on this. I'm the most easy-going
> >person. When I was teaching high school, a student would typically get
> >off with a reasonably sincere apology. All bets are off, though, if the
> >student, even one of my good ones, did something because they knew they
> >could get away with it. I would then make a specific point of nailing
> >them to the wall, publicly if need be.
>
> Again, I know the system. If I'm running some cgi script or java applet then
> I'm not breaking any rules, and perhaps if a librarian sees me do it and by
> chance figures out what I'm doing, then she'll yell at me to stop, but in my
> school you risk getting yelled at just by entering the library anyway, so
> that's really not so much of a risk.
>
> >Hey, if you want to hack your school's firewall, just to spite them, fine.
> >Suit yourself. But I'd really rather not see PLUG used as a means of
> >helping you do that.
>
> Actually, it's for several reasons. First and foremost, it's the good old
> hacker spirit of playing around with something and learning about it. This
> could help me with java, cgi, shell, and perl. Second, it'll add a usefull
> ability to telnet through any firewall for me. Third, I suppose there's a
> small element of getting away with something like that that can be done
> right out in the open since it would appear in IE.
>
> >Michael W. Ryan, MCP, MCT | OTAKON 1999
> >mryan@netaxs.com | Convention of Otaku Generation
> >http://www.netaxs.com/~mryan/ | http://www.otakon.com/
> >
> >PGP fingerprint: 7B E5 75 7F 24 EE 19 35 A5 DF C3 45 27 B5 DB DF
> >PGP public key available by fingering mryan@unix.netaxs.com (use -l opt)
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Plug maillist - Plug@lists.nothinbut.net
> >http://lists.nothinbut.net/mail/listinfo/plug
> >
>
> Again, I understand where you're coming from, but even you have to concede
> that you're ignorant of the specifics of my situation. While I am doing
> certain things by going through the system, some things are more fun to take
> into my own hands.
>
> BTW, can anybody get me a copy or does anybody know where I can get a copy
> of a Linux distro for the mac like LinuxPPC or something (preferably
> something easy)? Oh, & it needs to be cheap or free. I, as an officer of the
> computer club at my school, feel a need to introduce a few people with some
> potential to Linux. One (a female, which would make her a doubly bad loss)
> is a mac user, so something that would work for her platform of choice would
> be quite valuable. Also, if we are to get a *nix box up and running, then we
> may have to go the cheap old phased out mac route. But I'm rambling, so I
> think I'll end this now as I'm so very tired.
>
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