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Re: [PLUG] microsoft lost
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On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Bill Jonas wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
>
> >I'm going to keep this objective.
>
> That's always a good thing.
Yes, but it appears that I need to include opinion now.
> Last *I* checked, it was "Philadelphia Linux Users' Group", not
> "Philadelphia Linux (Supporters' or Supporting) Group".
Please explain to me, then how accusing Microsoft of co-opting our state
government helps a new user get his first Linux system installed. Or how
claiming that the Pennsylvania state government is going to require the
use of Microsoft products helps an experienced Linux user do new things
with his system. Or how promoting paranoid political agendas promotes
Linux to non-Linux users.
> >Not bashing Microsoft.
>
> I've not seen Microsoft bashing in this thread, just criticism. If they
> really are superior, the criticism wouldn't stand up. If they aren't,
> then what is wrong with pointing out the emperor's lack of clothing?
I'd call accusing Microsoft of forcing Pennsylvania residents to advertise
for them or forcing Pennsylvania residents to use Microsoft products
"Microsoft bashing".
> >Not advocating political agendas (paranoid or otherwise).
>
> That's right, computers have nothing to do with politics nowadays. Any
> discussion of politics in the context of computers is totally offtopic.
Please. You know very well that the purpose of this group is NOT
political issues.
> As a taxpaying (albeit unwillingly, although launching into a discussion
> of libertarianism *would* be totally offtopic)
Yes, and I've had the Libertarian, holier-than-thou agenda shoved down my
throat here enough times, thank you.
> citizen of the
> Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, I am offended by the way "they" are
> squandering our collective money on things that can be had much better
> for free (beer and speech).
More MS bashing. Could you please cite for me HOW MUCH, with references,
money was spent by our state government? Could you also compare and
contrast this with an analysis and estimate for the same thing for a Linux
platform? If not, you're just bashing.
> >I do not see how this thread falls under PLUG's purpose.
>
> I feel I've done a good job in this post explaining why it *does*.
And I disagree. I'm asking that it be taken off list.
> >Please take it elsewhere.
>
> Perhaps you might be served better if you started a "Philadelphia
> Linux-With-No-Mention-Of-Microsoft User's Mailing List".
Odd. This is usually what other people seem to want. I think I'm looking
for "Philadelphia Non-religious Users' Mailing List".
> If you don't like this particular thread, then, well, killfiles are
> wonderful things. It's not as though there are 200 messages a day on
> this list. Hell, we're lucky sometimes to get 2 *percent* of that.
> When I subscribed to the list in August, it was quite active, I'd guess
> about 15-25 messages a day or so. (I'm too lazy to look at the list
> archives right now.)
And I suppose when someone start screaming at the top of their lungs in my
apartment complex at 3 am, I'm supposed to just pull more pillows over my
head and block it out?
> >Michael W. Ryan, MCP, MCT | OTAKON 2000
> ^^^ ^^^
>
> Is the emperor wearing clothes? Other times that criticism of Microsoft
> has come up, you are the only one (most certainly the first) that I
> recall jumping up and saying, "Take it off the list!" I appreciate your
> stated claim up top that you were going to be objective, but, well,
> maybe I'm just dense, but I can't see it for the life of me.
I've been polite. And you, apparently, weren't satisfied with my being
objective (objective means to not include personal feelings or opinions).
Now, you appear to want to make it personal.
Yes, I am a current Microsoft Certified Professional and a Microsoft
Certified Trainer. And I work for a Microsoft Certified Solution Provider
and Partner. One of the top 3 Certified Technical Education Centers in
1999. I'm sorry, does this invalidate my opinion?
Do you think that maybe I, or any other professional who works with the
Microsoft environment, finds the incessent Microsoft bashing insulting?
Or maybe, just maybe, I have actual, real experience with Microsoft?
Hmm... perhaps I've been able to form a mature, informed opinion about
Microsoft and Linux, instead of just getting carried along by the
religious and political fervor, the FUD, and the hyperbole on BOTH sides.
I've said it before. Linux's biggest problem isn't a lack of
applications, or hard-to-find drivers, or cryptic documentation, or rough
edges. It's biggest threat isn't Microsoft. It's its rabid, religious
"advocates". You want to take over Microsoft's market? Fine, but when
are you going to realise that religion makes businesses nervous? Users
want applications and operating systems, not politics and rhetoric. Oh,
but of course, I'm an MCP/MCT, so that must just be Microsoft talking.
Michael W. Ryan, MCP, MCT | OTAKON 2000
mryan@netaxs.com | Convention of Otaku Generation
http://www.netaxs.com/~mryan/ | http://www.otakon.com/
PGP fingerprint: 7B E5 75 7F 24 EE 19 35 A5 DF C3 45 27 B5 DB DF
PGP public key available by fingering mryan@unix.netaxs.com (use -l opt)
______________________________________________________________________
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