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On Thursday 04 July 2002 11H:40, Noah Silva wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-07-04 at 11:09, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
> > At 11:12 PM -0400 7/3/02, Noah Silva wrote:
> > >Very little for C++ (it's just broken! use Objective C!),
> >
> > Don't get me started on Objective C - it's just WAY TOO WEIRD
> > and needs to be updated to the 1990's (let alone 2000)...
>
> As I understand it, apple is working on this now, as they are sing it
> for the development of OS X stuff. C++ was designed to be a temporary
> solution, and imo, it shows.
Where did you get this notion? Also, in a previous post you mentioned that
"C++ is broken", why do you say that? You've mentioned how you think that
others have misconceptions about Pascal with no supporting evidence. Where is
your support for these statements about C++?
- From Bjarne Stroustup (the recognized founder of C++) in "The C++ Programming
Language":
The C++ programming language is designed to:
- be a better C
- support data abstraction
- support object-oriented programming
I've heard the first one many times ("a better C"). I've been using C++ since
1990. I've NEVER heard anyone mention anything about C++ being designed as a
temporary solution. I could be wrong, but I've checked the books sitting on
my bookshelf.
I would suspect that the ObjectPascal still has Pascal as its basis for the
same reasons that C++ stems from C, to allow Pascal programmers to add to
their knowledge base without having to start over from scratch.
You also seemed to be looking for an answer to why there is a perception that
C is more portable. I believe that this stems from the belief that just about
every system comes with a C (and typically C++ nowadays) compiler. This
includes embedded systems. That is probably not the case with Pascal.
Granted, most people don't need to run software on embedded systems. But, gcc
especially runs on some really obscure platforms.
Don't get me wrong, Pascal is one of the first languages I learned. And, I
liked it. C++ and Java are just more widespread nowadays. Keep promoting
Object Pascal / Kylix / etc., though. Some of what you likely encounter is
the feeling that Pascal is "not new". Choice is a good thing. And, along
those lines, Pearl/Python/Ruby have their place as well.
>
> > > and Java I would like if it could compile Java language
> > >to Binary native code.
> >
> > You can - there are companies that offer Java native compilers.
>
> I am aware of this, but it's here and there. I would actually be more
> interested in a compiler to take pascal and/or C into Java ByteCode.
>
> > >Note that java stole a LOT from object pascal.
> >
> > And why not....
>
> Oh I didn't say it was a bad thing.
>
> -- noah silva
>
Java is descended from C/C++. This is well documented, the only immediately
available source at the moment is Bruce Eckel's "Thinking in Java", which
goes into much detail on the differences between C++ and Java (the rest being
extremely similar if not in fact the same). Also, Sun claims that Java was
designed to run on newer and cheaper chipsets with minimal changes. Again,
the embedded world comes to mind, although this is probably not where Java is
gaining the most acceptance.
AFAIK, the 1st OOP language is Simula-67, from which most of the newer OOP
languages "steal a LOT".
And what is my personal preference? Well, it depends on the project, who I'm
working with, what other tools are already being used, etc.
I don't have a lot of interest in Pascal at the moment, so I didn't follow
these messages initially. Not intending a language Holy War, just trying to
keep the playing field something close to what I consider to be level.
Cheers,
Jason Nocks
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