Kyle R. Burton on 12 Aug 2008 08:03:53 -0700


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Re: [PLUG] Lisp Talk Response


I almost forgot, PCL is available on-line:

  http://gigamonkeys.com/book/

as well as purchasable from Apress.  That had slipped my mind.

Kyle


On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Kevin McAllister <kevin@mcallister.ws> wrote:
> I attended the PLUG north meeting last night and enjoyed Kyle Burton's
> presentation on Lisp.  I emailed him directly a question and we decided that
> the question and response may be of general interest, so here is what I
> wrote and his response:
>
> Thanks for your talk last night.  Based on my prior experience with it and
>
> what you said Lisp appears to me to be extremely densely packed with
>
> valuable CS and programming-in-general insight.  It appears to me that
>
> spending time learning would be comparable to the 6 months I spent writing
>
> microcode for a Unisys mainframe IO controller.  In the way that while I was
>
> doing it I got tremendous insight into just the general working of computers
>
> which formed a base of knowledge I find extremely valuable today.  Based on
>
> this I am considering investing some time in doing some stuff with Lisp.
>
> You have a bunch of recommendations on your slides is there any that you
>
> would consider as a good starting point versus the others?  I know based on
>
> your long and storied dramatization slide that it may be hard to make such a
>
> recommendation.  In my case I guess better than a guided tour would be a
>
> comprehensive resource with maybe some examples for the advanced stuff. (of
>
> course what's advanced right?)
>
>
> Kevin,
>
> Thanks for writing.  For just getting started, with Common Lisp, one
> of the books is probably a good place to begin:
>
> Peter Seibel's Practical Common Lisp
>
> This is a good introductory book, it starts from basic premises and
> works through a lot of practical examples, while showing you some of
> the warts of the old language and at least introduces some of the
> things which make lisp different.  I know there are examples of
> macros, and I think also conditions and restarts.  PCL is probably the
> best 'getting started' book of all the ones I've come across.  PCL
> hadn't been written when I started pursuing Lisp, I wish that it had.
>
> Part of the challenge that I experienced was that I had already had a
> mental idea of computation that was based on having used C, C++, Perl
> and Java when I started with lisp.  The new concepts didn't have a
> corollary in the languages that I had previously used (things like
> destructuring, pattern-matching, continuations, restarts and macros).
> I had to keep working at them before I started to understand them.
>
>
> The other books are good as well, but I wouldn't necessarily say you
> should start with them.  PAIP is a great book about programming in
> Lisp, but it isn't about Lisp, it's about AI -- but don't be
> intimidated by that, if you can find a copy, in my opinion, it's well
> worth it.  I didn't understand all the material the first time I read
> through it and I've gone back to it several times and picked up new
> things several times over the years since I've owned it.  On Lisp is
> available for free (it's by Paul Graham and out of print), or from an
> on-demand printer, Lulu:
>
>  http://www.lulu.com/content/3060872
>
> That print is only about $20, with shipping, so its a bargain.  On
> Lisp is highly regarded in the Lisp community.  I bought a copy from
> Lulu just last week.  It is supposed to have a great treatment of
> macros - but I wouldn't recommend it as your first introduction to
> Common Lisp.
>
> There is a functional programming users group in Philly, Philly Lambda:
>
>  http://groups.google.com/group/philly-lambda/
>
> That might be worth joining.  There are other Lisp and Scheme
> programmers in that group (including myself).
>
> If you do get started and have questions, feel free to email or ask
> questions, I'm sure I'll learn as much as you do from your questions!
>
> Also, it might benefit the rest of the members of PLUG if we were
> having this exchange over the list rather than privately.  If you're
> comfortable we might want to move the discussion there (or Philly
> Lambda).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Kyle Burton
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
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>



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