Frank via plug on 9 Jan 2024 11:26:04 -0800

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Re: [PLUG] Linux install-a-thon?

I think this is a pretty good idea.  It would be small groups of people, and they'd be largely self-selected, but it could definitely be a fun activity to get some less advantaged kids into something computer-related.  I think if this was combined with showing the kids a little bit around the OS after the install (which obviously, isn't more than a few clicks and a few minutes), it could be a pretty good after-school program. I certainly would have enjoyed this when I was in school!


On 1/7/24 3:24 PM, Charles Hathaway via plug wrote:
Just a thought; maybe pair with a local highschool and do this with some students? An afternoon activity, and they get to keep the computers they setup. There's a lot of educational value to learning about "traditional" computers, especially for students interested in STEM. 


On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, 12:07 PM Rich Mingin (PLUG) via plug <> wrote:
Completely understood. I have a Framework Chromebook that fully expect I could reach or exceed the mid-2030 end of support date. That’s not the popular super cheap model, though, and I’m careful what data it touches. Not the same for everyone, I just wanted to make a note after I read a comment I felt was inaccurate and bias/emotion based.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 15:03 Walt Mankowski via plug <> wrote:
My intent wasn’t to start a flame war or to discourage this project, but rather to set some realistic expectations.

I don’t have any experience with Chromebooks. My impression, though, was that they’re used mostly in the educational market. But whether it’s Chromebooks or something else, I figured that the pandemic forced all the school districts to come up with some sort of computer solution for all their students. But maybe I’m wrong, or maybe they’ll need to be replaced at some point. Who knows?

For everyone else, keep in mind that for lots of people, their cellphone is the only computer they have or need.


On Sun, Jan 7, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Rich Mingin (PLUG) via plug wrote:
I know it’ll just be fanboy flame war noise to most, but I just wanted to note that while Apple is evil in many ways, they do not sell individual end user data to anyone. What data collection Apple does, Apple keeps. 

Microsoft very much does resell gathered data, both aggregated and somewhat anonymized, and data from individuals which is highly identifiable.

Amazon is more places than you think, and is somewhere between Apple and MS on my evil-meter, as their license allows for unlimited use in any way they see fit, but they have kept pretty much everything internal to date.

Also, if we are getting out the tar and feathers, both Ubuntu and Gnome have provisions in their agreements allowing data collection, use and sale. If we want to hang all cattle rustlers, we should not give *anyone* a pass.

Just wanted the record straight.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 12:05 Frank via plug <> wrote:
You know, I didn't even think about the Google data harvesters as
computers, but I think you're correct.  I think that most
non-computer-ized people probably do just buy these cheap data trackers
these days.

It's such a shame.  I closed my business last year, and I had to dump
more than 30 completely working computers just because nobody wanted
them.  I can't even begin to imagine the number of perfectly functional
computers being tossed into landfills every day (many, just because they
don't run Windows v.**).  I also can't imagine having everything I do on
my devices recorded by Google/Apple and sold to the highest bidder (but
I know that 99.99% of people today don't care about that either).

Oh well, I appreciate everybody's consideration of my idea!

- Frank

On 1/7/24 10:55 AM, Rich Freeman via plug wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 10:46 AM Walt Mankowski via plug
>> The computing world is different now than it was 10-15 years ago.
>> Today everyone carries around a computer in their pocket. Plus there
>> are Chromebooks for school and $80 netbooks at Micro Center. I think a
>> lot of people who were using the Debian boxes we built back in the day
>> might be better served today with a commodity Android phone.
> Agree with this sentiment.  I'd be happy to volunteer with the install
> part, but we should definitely first make sure that there is a need.
> Also, if somebody knows nothing about computers, a $100 chromebook
> might be a more maintainable option.  They're just way more resistant
> to shooting yourself in the foot and they're very secure out of the
> box.
>> On Sun, Jan 07, 2024 at 10:09:23AM -0500, K.S. Bhaskar via plug wrote:
>>>     - Promote virtually, but have an in-person installfest. Having installed
>>>     Linux on (I guesstimate) at least 100 old Windows machines, one out of
>>>     every 3-4 machines has some wrinkle to overcome before getting a successful
>>>     install. Fortunately device drivers are no longer the problem on Linux that
>>>     they used to be. You can't overcome these wrinkles remotely.
> If it takes one of us an hour of fidgeting to get some 10 year old
> laptop to boot up in Ubuntu (or heaven forbid one of our favorite
> niche distros), what is going to happen when there is a software
> update or some other issue that breaks it after we hand it off?  I'd
> say that if a PC can't automagically install Ubuntu it is effectively
> ewaste for anybody but an enthusiast who intends to use it in some
> project.  You want to give something supportable to the end user.
> That's the other reason something like a Chromebook is a better
> option.  It has full OEM support and a hardware EOL date.  For $100
> you get a laptop that isn't going to break for 5 years or so, with a
> vendor doing full QA on that model to ensure that is the case.
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