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Re: tangent warning. was: Re: [PLUG] .directory files
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nicely put. i agree.
> On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 22:11, gabriel rosenkoetter wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 07:51:38PM -0400, Ian Reinhart Geiser wrote:
>> > This is because of a small oversight on the FS designers not to
>> allow for metadata in the filesystem.
>>
>> Pshaw. There's plenty of room for metadata in the FS. It just so
>> happens it's used for storing little things like file modification
>> times and such. You know, nothing so important as an icon's
>> position.
>>
>> ::sigh::
>
> Extreme l33tness aside, there is absolutely a place for graphical
> interfaces. In fact, if it weren't for the often maligned 'GUI',
> computers would be nothing more than an interest of introverts and
> geeks. You're falling into a dangerous mindset. Just because _you_ don't
> personally use something, or like it, doesnt mean it has no place on a
> 'real' computer. There are tons of reasons for a GUI. One of which is
> the thing the masses crave most. Transforming a computing device into an
> appliance. Why should I know 10 different commands to move stuff around
> a filesystem? The learning curve is prohibitive and all I want to do is
> rearange my mp3's. A mouse can (and has) replaced dozens of commands for
> the desktop user. This allows them to get on with the real objective.
> Getting their work done with minimal fuss (for them) and without having
> to learn a myriad of commands/switches. How then, is this bad for them?
>
> The hatred for the GUI shown by the 'hardcore' self proclaimed 'real
> unix' users disgusts me. Just because a particular application isnt
> useful to an admin or a kernel hacker, doesnt mean it has no merit. Not
> everyone _wants_ to be an admin. Some people just want to send digital
> pictures to their family, or play a game. Others, myself included, feel
> that the desktop should be aestheticly pleasing as well as functional.
> Isn't this why I've seen such a swell of interest in OS X in the *nix
> crowd? A nice interface, combined with a powerful commandline is a
> wonderful thing.
>
> As a recovering unix admin, the disrespect shown for those not technical
> or those who perhaps just want to use their computer as an appliance to
> meet their needs, rather than spending all their time learning things
> that in their minds have nothing to do with the task at hand only serves
> to reinforce my decision to get out of the digital janitor business. I
> suppose this topic has been beat to death. Its just a shame to see this
> attitude on this list.
>
> It makes new users feel inferior and appologetic. Arguing the
> superiority of the commandline vs the GUI is absurd. There is a reason
> we have both.
>
> Imagine an embeded system powered by linux, but not 'dirtied' by the
> baseness of a graphical interface.
>
> You walk into Wawa to get a sandwich. You're confronted by a terminal
> with a dollar sign and a blinking bar. The keyboard looks disused.
> There's nobody around so you.....
>
> sandwich
> -bash: sandwich: command not found
> order
> -bash: order: command not found
> help
> GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-pc-linux-gnu)
> These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this
> list.
> Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'.
> Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general.
> Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list.
>
> A star (*) next to a name means that the command is disabled.
>
> %[DIGITS | WORD] [&] (( expression ))
> . filename :
> [ arg... ] [[ expression ]]
> alias [-p] [name[=value] ... ] bg [job_spec]
> bind [-lpvsPVS] [-m keymap] [-f fi break [n]
> builtin [shell-builtin [arg ...]] case WORD in [PATTERN [| PATTERN].
> cd [-L|-P] [dir] command [-pVv] command [arg ...]
> compgen [-abcdefgjksuv] [-o option complete [-abcdefgjksuv] [-pr] [-o
> continue [n] declare [-afFirtx] [-p] name[=valu
> dirs [-clpv] [+N] [-N] disown [-h] [-ar] [jobspec ...] echo
> [-neE] [arg ...] enable [-pnds] [-a] [-f filename] eval
> [arg ...] exec [-cl] [-a name] file [redirec exit
> [n] export [-nf] [name[=value] ...] or false
> fc [-e ename] [-nlr] [first] [last fg
> [job_spec] for NAME [in WORDS ... ;] do COMMA for
> (( exp1; exp2; exp3 )); do COM function NAME { COMMANDS ; } or NA
> getopts optstring name [arg] hash [-lr] [-p pathname] [-dt] [na
> help [-s] [pattern ...] history [-c] [-d offset] [n] or hi
> if COMMANDS; then COMMANDS; [ elif jobs [-lnprs] [jobspec ...] or job
> kill [-s sigspec | -n signum | -si let arg [arg ...]
> local name[=value] ... logout
> popd [+N | -N] [-n] printf format [arguments]
> pushd [dir | +N | -N] [-n] pwd [-PL]
> read [-ers] [-u fd] [-t timeout] [ readonly [-anf] [name[=value] ...]
> return [n] select NAME [in WORDS ... ;] do CO
> set [--abefhkmnptuvxBCHP] [-o opti shift [n]
> shopt [-pqsu] [-o long-option] opt source filename
> suspend [-f] test [expr]
> time [-p] PIPELINE times
> trap [arg] [signal_spec ...] or tr true
> type [-afptP] name [name ...] typeset [-afFirtx] [-p] name[=valu
> ulimit [-SHacdflmnpstuv] [limit] umask [-p] [-S] [mode]
> unalias [-a] [name ...] unset [-f] [-v] [name ...]
> until COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done variables - Some variable names an
> wait [n] while COMMANDS; do COMMANDS; done {
> COMMANDS ; }
>
>
> So you leave and go to Subway instead.
>
> You get the idea. Yes, the argument is absurd. But not by much. Who
> cares if your sandwich ordering system has an uptime of 500 days and you
> can remotely admin 1000 of them from your bedroom if nobody can _use_
> them? Usability matters. The definition of usability changes dramaticly
> based on the user.
>
>
> So yes, its a free country (sort of). And not everyone will agree on
> things. But why tear things down for no reason? Its not like nobody on
> this lists respects you for the knowlege you have.
>
> I for one, appreciate a decent GUI for day to day tasks. I do not feel
> this lessens my abilities. When the GUI doesnt do what I need, I'm fully
> capable of using and appreciate my Eterm. That said, there are times the
> CLI isn't the right answer.
>
> I guess I should just save my breath. This isn't getting me anywhere.
>
> --
>
> Mental (Mental@NeverLight.com)
>
> This body. This body holding me. Be my reminder here that
> I am not alone in
> This body, this body holding me, feeling eternal
> All this pain is an illusion.
>
> --Tool "Parabola"
>
> CARPE NOCTEM, QUAM MINIMUM CREDULA POSTERO.
>
> GPG public key: http://www.neverlight.com/pas/Mental.asc
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