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Re: [PLUG] Help with Lawsuit
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On Thu, May 01, 2003 at 05:32:55PM -0400, William H. Magill wrote:
> The primary questions are -- what "computer disk" is the "other data"
> stored on? ...the data which they CAN provide in ASCII form, and how
> did it get there?
>
> The fact is, NONE of the data resides "on a computer disk," but rather
> it all resides in some database someplace, nominally on the "BRT
> servers," which may or may not be "a mainframe."
IMO where the data actually resides is beside the point. According to
my best info., the BRT runs Oracle. It should be very easy therefore
for them to produce a SQL dump regardless of what they are using for a
backing store: hard disks, tape drives, or drones who quickly type in
answers.
> My guess is that the "computer disk" the Lawyer is referring to is in
> fact some drone's PC... (where a copy most likely resides "illegally"
> in the first place.)
> [[After all, the only thing "they" can burn a CD from is a PC, right?
> :)]
I'm not following you here. This is a very involved fantasy. Why
would their lawyer think this? Are you suggesting that the BRT told
her this story?
> So where does that leave us. First off, the Lawyer is in way over
> his/her head.
> They are flat out lying, but they don't know it.
I agree with you. Here's my guess as to what may be happening.
Computer savvy client pulls wool over eyes of computer ignorant
lawyer. Lawyer goes out and makes false statements as a result. Even
if she finds outs, the lawyer will never admit publicly to being
hoodwinked. And in any event, the client can always claim that the
lawyer, due to her lack of computer background, misunderstood what
they told her. What a great way to lie without consequences.
> Nominally, the only way to deal with the problem is to find out if the
> Judge will accept testimony of an expert Witness on the issue.
> Depending on how "politically correct" the Judge is being, they won't.
> But that is essentially the only way you can get the issue resolved.
Why wouldn't a judge allow expert testimony? Isn't it my right as a
litigant to present any witnesses I want? What do you mean by
politically correct? Would a politically correct judge be more or
less likely to allow expert testimony IYO?
> The real problem you are facing is that of the American Legal System.
> You must realize that Justice has nothing to do with the system; it is
> purely a technical system. That is quite obvious in reading the brief.
> The Lawyer has been told that his/her position is to oppose the request
> on whatever LEGAL grounds are available -- NOT COMPUTER TECHNICAL.
I think you are probably right. These City Lawyers often act as if it
doesn't matter what the facts are, that the Law is sufficiently
elastic or the City sufficiently powerful that they can argue blue is
green and get away with it.
> Also, whatever that document is, it is essentially worthless... it is
> NOT a signed (and therefore enforceable) contract. It may, or may not,
> represent any arrangement between the City and MBN. (And it is only a
> "proposal" document anyway.)
Just what are deliverables anyway?
There are two documents, the one a proposal dated March, 2002, the
other a amendment to a contract with a "deliverables" document attached:
http://www.hallwatch.org/rtkasuits/suits/brt/brtweb/mbncontract
http://www.hallwatch.org/rtkasuits/suits/brt/brtweb/mbncontract_ammended
> You are faced with a situation where the City does not want to provide
> you something and is using legal technicalities to avoid it. And sadly,
> the City can use terms like "computer disk" to mean whatever they want
> them to mean. YOU have to define explicitly what it is that you want
> from them.
I don't see it that way. The BRT knows perfectly well what I want.
The goal here is to convince the judge that it would be a trivial job,
a matter of 5 or 10 minutes, for the BRT to supply me with the
information I seek.
--
Ed Goppelt
http://www.hallwatch.org
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