Keith C. Perry on 24 Feb 2015 09:17:49 -0800

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Re: [PLUG] Forced FIOS upgrade?

Telling someone that they need to upgrade to FIOS to fix their POTS line?  Sorry, that deserves an "at all".  VZ is under pressure to complete the FIOS rollout in this area by 3rd quarter this is year from what I was told so their definitely trying to retire POTS deployments (and have been for years but they were allowed to pick and choose roll out areas and there wasn't any backbone to call them on it until recently).

That however has nothing to do with trying to sell something to someone that they don't need.  The irresponsibility comes in, in not presenting all the options available to satisfy what the consumer wants.  Plus this was service call not a new install.  My fax line went down awhile back.  The guy came out, hemmed and hawed about having to go around the corner to someone else yard to get to the pole but eventually got the work done.  Job done- took less than hour.  No mention of FIOS as a fix.

The right thing to do if they want to push FIOS for basic voice services is wave installation and get the monthly cost down to either the same rate or "reasonably" close.  If that's the case then fine but I doubt it.

I'm also being rather sensitive to what feels like someone taking advantage of an older consumer.  Probably not the case here but it happens.  I'm glad Mike was there to think it through.

Its just bad form as a tech too.  You fix the problem or exhaust the possibilities first before you sell something new.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Owner, DAO Technologies LLC
(O) +1.215.525.4165 x2033
(M) +1.215.432.5167

From: "brent timothy saner" <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 11:10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [PLUG] Forced FIOS upgrade?

Hash: SHA512

responses inline.

 *From: *"Mike" <>
 *To: *
 *Sent: *Tuesday, February 24, 2015 10:31:41 AM
 *Subject: *[PLUG] Forced FIOS upgrade?
 Sorry that this is off topic, but I know that you folks know a lot about
 this :)
 My mother's Verizon landline is currently not working.  I believe that
 her current service is POTS, though that may have changed in 2006 when I
 had a DSL line installed so that I could stay with her following an
 illness.  (Am I correct that this is still POTS?)

generally yes, although it's perfectly possible (and done in some
places) to run DSL over an optics line.

but 2006 was too long ago for them to have proactively moved it to
optics unless she happened to be in one of few "target/prototype"
neighborhoods. she should still be using POTS.

So on Saturday, I plugged a phone into the NID on the back of the house
 and got no dialtone.  A technician came out on Sunday and confirmed that
 the issue is in fact with the line, external to the house.

I'd agree with him so far.

The technician stated that the line needed to be upgraded to FIOS.  At
 first I agreed to a migration order.  But the thought subsequently
 occurred to me that they may be using this as an excuse to backdoor her
 into a service that she doesn't need - and will cost her more money.

It *shouldn't* cost her a dime, and if it does, you call them right back
and ask them insistently "why?"; see why you'll want to do that below.

Is there a legitimate reason why they can't restore her existing service?

Totally. Just because it's POSSIBLE to run DSL over optics doesn't mean
they have their POP office *configured to do so*.

Which means it's possible that in the rollouts of optics, they decided
to retire their POTS termination at the POP or even the neighborhood's
junction box.

Incredibly stupid? Yes, absolutely. Likely? Not really. Though I can see
a neighborhood junction getting POTS obsoleted out because they thought
everyone on the block was already on optics. It would explain the
current scenario, why the tech says you "need" to switch over to optics,
and is much more possible (mistakes of oversight are much more likely
than actual bad decisions).

What's more likely, however, is that the field techs (ugh.) are
encouraged to persuade the consumers to upgrade to an optics line.

The real question is if she has been paying this whole time for service
and it hasn't been rendered. Do you know when the line went dead? If
this was a very recent thing, I'm incredibly tempted to instead
attribute the behaviour to storm damage (aged cabling, ice on the wires,
knocked poles, you name it- winter storms, and winter weather in general
for that matter, *suck* for outdoor cabling).

So I'd call up their HQ and escalate- escalate as high as you can, right
off the bat- until you get someone who might know just what the hell
they're talking about (though I've found that during the day/business
hours, the phone reps are generally pretty knowledgeable on Verizon, and
are pretty amenable to getting an answer for you if they don't know it).
Don't be afraid to push a little. When you do, find out if the POTS
lines were ripped out of your neighborhood and then find out why if so.
They're required to inform residents of neighborhoods when they do this.

On 02/24/2015 10:42 AM, Keith C. Perry wrote:> That doesn't sound right
at all.  No one /needs/ FIOS for a voice line.
 Sounds like poor example of attempting to upsell to consumers under the
 guise of fixing a problem.

I wouldn't say something as polarizing as "at all"- it's perfectly
plausible that the tech's telling the truth, just not likely given
surrounding circumstances, but I hesitate to make a judgment either way
until I know when the line actually went out.
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