Rich Freeman on 15 May 2019 13:08:09 -0700

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Re: [PLUG] PLUG Fusion room or DMR Talkgroup

Well, whatever was intended, as I originally said I'm all for a talk
group online, and extended to a repeater if practical.

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 3:57 PM Keith C. Perry
<> wrote:
> I wasn't saying that either and I didn't take Jim to be saying that (though I could be wrong- he'll correct the record I'm sure :) )
> My original observation was that I didn't see us on any of the 3 main digital modes.  In my opinion and from what I've observed, the interest there is more about the talkgroup / room and less about using repeaters since a lot of people are already using hotspots.  Setting up tg or room is pretty quick- possibly ridiculusly quick if its a YSF room since that process is automated and gets synced to pi-star in short order.
> (yes, I know not everyone is using a pi-star based hotspot but its a start)
> Linking with repeaters certainly improves the experience for those in range and have the equipment but again going back to my original thesis- I think newer hams need the "ragchew" /  group experience more to gain confidence.  Over the recent years I've heard and seen the pressure (spoken or unspoken) of operating "correctly" and how it tends to keep people on the side.  Having a familar group to "play" with I'm sure would be beneficial.
> I decided I'm not getting any digital HT's until there are more quality digital (at least the big 3) / analog units in the market place.  I'm fine play network radio via my desk unit (tethered) or an android app (tethered or mobile) until then :D but that is a good point.
> Ok...  Hopefully some other folks chime in on this.  I know there are more that 4 hams on here and I know people aren't shy about operating email.
> ;)
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
> Managing Member, DAO Technologies LLC
> (O) +1.215.525.4165 x2033
> (M) +1.215.432.5167
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Freeman" <>
> To: "Philadelphia Linux User's Group Discussion List" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 2:45:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG Fusion room or DMR Talkgroup
> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 1:59 PM Keith C. Perry
> <> wrote:
> >
> > I think the idea though is that repeaters because of all the network
> > radio stuff are becoming under-utilized and thus the value proposition
> > of maintaining and upgrading them overtime becomes more questionable.
> I'm not saying to NOT bridge the talkgroup to a repeater.  I'm just
> saying that it ought to be online so that we're not limited to the RF
> coverage of one repeater.
> >  However, if there is local repeater that wants to host the hardware and software needed for this it provides the motivation to continue to do so.
> Jim's proposal doesn't require any hardware or software.  He proposed
> just using a local repeater, without any online talk groups.  All
> repeaters support this out of the box.
> > Even if the converage isn't as centralized as we want its probably a
> > conversation to be had- especially if we can get several operators to
> > carry the traffic.  I could see that being a win for systems that are
> > not currently linked.  Devil is in the details, perhaps there is a
> > reason why this hasn't been done yet.
> Like I said, I'm fine with linking an online talkgroup to a repeater
> somewhere if the owner is fine with it.  I just wouldn't use ONLY a
> single repeater site.
> The reason that these repeaters are underutilized is network effects.
> If I want to talk to you using a single unlinked repeater, we both
> need to be within RF range of it using our preferred radio.  If for me
> that is an HT inside my house, that means a repeater within probably
> 10 miles of my house or so.  Now, if we're talking mobile rigs or
> better yet base stations with antennas on roofs the footprint is much
> larger, but since most of us don't like being tethered to a desk all
> day that isn't as practical an option.
> If the talkgroup is online most of these issues go away because you
> can have all the hotspots you want, and it is easy to bridge them to
> repeaters as well.  The internet makes the distance issues go away,
> and you can have that group where everybody lives 25 miles away from
> everybody else.
> Now, you can use one of the large local repeater networks that are
> bridged, but even those aren't always great indoors/etc.  They're also
> busier, and none have any close affiliation with PLUG right now that I
> know of.  Warminster and Penn are the two big ones I'm aware of that
> are still reasonably local.  But, those aren't bringing traffic to an
> otherwise-idle repeater.
> --
> Rich
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