Michael Leone on Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT)


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Re: [PLUG] microsoft lost


Bill Jonas asked:

> Would you please explain to *me*, then how a non-educational posting on
> a topic "of interest to the Philadelphia Linux Users Group" helps a new
> user get his first Linux system installed.

>Or how announcing an upcoming meeting promotes Linux to non-Linux users.

If you're investigating a possible course of action (i.e., switching from a
different system to Linux), it lets the newbies know that there is a local
group they might be able to turn to, in they are in need of help. Or to get
real-world reasons to switch.

> contend that Microsoft is *not* a better choice.  (I'll grant you, I've
> heard anecdotal evidence that Win2K can run about 90 days without
> crashing or needing a reboot, as opposed to every week or two with NT4.

Actually, I have 3 NT servers (Exchange, SQL Server, IIS). Granted, all are
lightly used (main systems here are Netware and AIX/Pick). But they
certainly don't get rebooted every week. Some NT systems do, I'm sure.

> >Yes, I am a current Microsoft Certified Professional and a Microsoft
> >Certified Trainer.  And I work for a Microsoft Certified Solution
Provider
> >and Partner.  One of the top 3 Certified Technical Education Centers in
> >1999.  I'm sorry, does this invalidate my opinion?
>
> It does not.  It appears to me, though, that it would be a very
> difficult thing to maintain one's objectivity in such an environment.

Not really. True professionals know that each OS has it's strengths and
weaknesses; that one OS might be better suited for a particular need than
others.

MVS is well-suited when you have a need for an OS for thousands of users;
not all that well suited to run a single-user home system on. :-)

> >Do you think that maybe I, or any other professional who works with the
> >Microsoft environment, finds the incessent Microsoft bashing insulting?
>
> "Incessant."  I've seen no evidence of anything of the sort continuing
> non-stop on this list.  Or are you speaking of in general?  I'm sorry, I
> thought this was a discussion of what goes on on this list.

I think he meant "incessant" in the sense that anytime MS is mentioned at
all on this list, it's to bash. Or it seems so.
('Course, I could be wrong)

> >I've said it before.  Linux's biggest problem isn't a lack of
> >applications, or hard-to-find drivers, or cryptic documentation, or rough
> >edges.  It's biggest threat isn't Microsoft.  It's its rabid, religious
> >"advocates".  You want to take over Microsoft's market?  Fine,

I see the same problem (i.e., rabid advocates) with Apple users. It's the
attitude of *some*, not all, users that annoys the hell out of me, not their
OS and systems.

(And before anyone comments, yes, I feel the same way about the "MS-only"
rabid advocates)

Anytime I hear such nonsense (i.e., "This-or-that OS sucks; anybody who's
really in the know doesn't use it"), I just tune them out, because they've
just proven to my satisfaction that they don't know what the hell they're
talking about.

> Besides, NT/2K isn't king on the server.

Sure it is (NT, anyway). King in the sense of market share (defined as a
percentage of total server installations). NT, Netware, Linux, if I remember
the last numbers I saw for new installations.

> >Users want applications and operating systems, not politics and
> >rhetoric.
>
> I have to disagree with this.  Most average users want to complete their
> tasks with a minimum of time and effort.  They don't *really* care which
> OSs or applications they use, as long as they can do what they need to
> do.  For most users, this translates into Windows (since they already
> "know Windows", it's less effort) and Office (because of its superior
> support for the Office file formats) on the desktop.

They most certainly care which OS and applications they use. They want to
use what they know. Most users want Windows and Office because they know it,
true. If they really didn't care which OS or application, there would be a
whole more users for  all the other OSes and non-MS applications. Like using
WordPerfect on a Mac, or StarOffice on Linux. Either option is cheaper than
buying Office for Windows, and can do most of the features of Office (well,
the features that the majority of users actually use, anyway). Most users go
for Office on Windows, however, regardless of the cost savings.

> I didn't say that carrying those initials after your name invalidated
> your opinion or meant that you spoke for Microsoft, I just pointed out
> that you are the main (and usually first) one to jump in on a thread
> that has a negative bent toward Microsoft and empirically declare it
> unfit for the list.

More like assertively request. He can't offically declare it unfit, as we
have no moderator (and don't want one).



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