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Re: [PLUG] PLUG Website Maintenence
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On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Iman Mayes wrote:
> 1) I'm sure there are plenty of sites that are "HTML Compliant" that won't
> look right in lynx, particularly ones that support the more modern standards
> (CSS, DHTML, etc).
Looking right, and looking good are two different things. Looking
"right" implies that it doesn't look like the designer designed it to look
in a graphical browser. However, a site should look "good" or at least be
reasonably functional and decently laid out in the two major text browsers
(lynx and (?)w3c) the various versions of netscape, IE, and if you want to
test for it, things like opera and konqueror -- at very LEAST whenever I
do a site, I test on Lynx, Netscape 4.x, and IE. I know people who test
on browser versions far back.. 1.0, etc. and even different age of
computers, and speeds of connections.
Heck, I just got DSL and commented to a friend of mine how a friend of
his's site looked good, and while it had a lot of pictures on it, I
thought that it was reasonably designed (such as the pictures werent too
big) because it loaded fast. Then I remembered, I wasn't on dialup
anymore. I've also seen pages that people poorly design not thinking that
not everybody has a 19"+ monitor, or increase the browser window to full
screen. Lots of people have 15" monitors, and most people probably do not
surf with the browser full-screen.
It's given that a site with a complex design won't look the same way it
looks in Mozilla 1.x.x as it does in Lynx, but when one pays attention to
these issues, one can make a usable, viable, site that at least looks
acceptable in a text browser, or without the graphics, and is accessible
by those with disabilities.
Read: http://www.evolt.org/article/Why_Bobby_Approved_is_not_Enough/4090/9278/
and try http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/html/en/index.jsp
Note: darxus, as far as I can tell, never tried for bobby
compliance.. just for HTML standards compliance.
Coding, and testing also helps one learn how different tags operate and
how different tags are interpreted.. I don't remember exactly what tags it
was, but when I was coding my site a while back (it's no longer up due to
the system it was on, went down) I tried nesting various tags and found
that while they could both nest inside one another, one would influence
the other in different ways, and that it also helped me understand the
logic behind various tags, and how they are interpreted.
> 2) As far as feelings about having a more graphical site, I respect your
> opinion and would like to hear from others. What's the problem with browser
> detecting? If your using a browser that can identify itself via the HTTP
> protocol, you shouldn't have a problem.
A graphical site, and browser detecting are two different things. Browser
detecting implies matching your site to the browser. It implies coding
for the browser rather than expecting the browser to seek standards
compliance. It implies either coding more than one site, or coding for
whatever the browser-of-the-day is.
One thing that you said before that I wanted to respond to, but held off
on was when I initially suggested making it so that the site looked good
in text, you responded something about having two sites. That is not what
I meant. I meant we should have one site that looks good in both text
browsers, and graphical browsers, and graphical browsers with image
loading turned off, and in other browsers (say, for the visually
impared.) one shouldn't have to code more than one site [disclaimer: I
have never coded a site for a mobile device, or for WAP.. so I do not know
what it takes to code for that.]
You pick up on this below at #4 but I am confused by what you say
below. When I previously referenced keeping the old site up and making
links between the matching pages, it is not so that we have and
continue to maintain the old site for text, and the new site for graphics,
it is so that any prexisting links do not break, and that they properly
forward and inform the people of where the new applicable pages are.
read "Pages must live forever" http://www.useit.com/alertbox/981129.html
> 3) The mailing list is good for being a mailing list. If you think it is all
> you need, then there is no need for a website. Does the mailing list have
> archives? Is it searchable? Obviously, a website could give you more
> functionality (and I'm not just talkin perty graphics).
I am not sure what you are referencing to. I assume someone said
something you are responding to here. We do have a searchable mailing
list. (I believe it may still be broken on the website, although I haven't
checked lately. We recently had to switch mail servers.)
> 4) The current format does look great in text browsers, which is why I feel
> that if there is a new site it should still work fine in in that case.
>
> Trust me, I'm not trying to drag the site kicking and screeming where the
> group does not want it to go. I want this to be a *group* decision. I think,
> however, we can if need be get to a happy medium.
It's not a matter of it going where it doesnt want to go, or anything like
that. A graphical site is fine (heck, at very least, I've always wanted
the old neon-plug graphic back), being able to edit different parts of the
site by different people is good too (the how-to pages, etc.) but in
design, one needs to be aware of and pay attention to all these
issues.. we're (probably) very happy to have someone interested in
volunteering to help and get involved with the website, and PLUG in
general, or for that matter, any good effort, we just want people to
understand these design and interface/programming issues.
I guess that's it for now.
--
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