Lee Marzke on 13 Nov 2009 10:37:46 -0800


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Re: [PLUG] cheapass VM host platform?


Mike Sheinberg wrote:
> Just wanted to expand on my group question to get some feedback of
> whether anyone has used any other VM solutions that do not utilize
> Windows in any way? I just noticed that Red Hat released a platform
> and oddly enough you still need a Windows client to access the
> management console (yeah, bizarre I know.
> <http://www.redhat.com/virtualization/rhev/server/>). After digging
> around I came across the ConVirt <http://www.convirture.com/>
> management platform which manages KVM/Xen hosts and best part is the
> management console can be used from a Linux client. Does anyone have
> any production experience with such a setup? Everyone seems to have
> some experience with VMWare's platform but I have heard very little
> discussion from others regarding the production ready viability of
> other platforms. Which is understandable if they are not at this time,
> I'm just interested :)

I don't know the details, but Eucalyptus just announced integration with
Vsphere /ESXi 4
and Amazon AMI.    So theoretically you can burst ( cloudburst ? )  your
existing Vsphere VM's
to Amazon if you need more capacity.

Eucalyptus is avaiable on Ubuntu 9.10 server CD's at install time.

I believe the Vmware integration is not Opensource,  only Xen and KVM parts.

This is much more complicated than what your looking for , however.

Lee


>
> Thanks!
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Mike Sheinberg <m.sheiny@gmail.com
> <mailto:m.sheiny@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Lee,
>
>     Thanks for your insight into the caveats of working with
>     ghettoVCB. It sounds like from the way they've locked down the
>     ESXi server that I won't get a free reliable backup solution
>     without some serious hacking. I'm still concerned with pitching
>     the costs of
>     this to management but honestly the risk of not getting consistent
>     backups utilizing our current VMWare Server is not good.
>
>     From my end it also kinda sucks the level of Microsoft we have to
>     deploy in order to get ESX running. Do you know if there are any
>     performance concerns from utilizing the free SQL Express for VCenter?
>
>     Does anyone also have any experience with getting a relatively
>     inexpensive solution going with other Virtualization tech (such as
>     KVM, Citrix, etc.) ? From past experience VMWare has been a really
>     great platform but I'd like to weigh all my options when making
>     the pitch for our VM infrastructure.
>
>     Thanks again for your feedback Lee, I'm already glad I signed up
>     for this group :)
>
>     -Mike
>
>
>
>     On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Lee Marzke <lee@marzke.net
>     <mailto:lee@marzke.net>> wrote:
>
>         Mike Sheinberg wrote:
>         > Anyone have any experience configuring (free) backups with
>         ESXi 4?
>         > Currently I'm working for a company utilizing VMWare Server
>         which
>         > really lacks a lot of the great features/performance I've
>         seen in
>         > previous ESX versions (3.5). Many VMware users on forums
>         recommend the
>         > 'ghettoVCB' script (following
>         > http://communities.vmware.com/docs/DOC-8760). Anyone have any
>         > experience with this method or have any other suggestions
>         for do it
>         > yourself ESXi backups?
>         >
>         > Thanks!
>         > Mike
>         >
>         Mike,
>
>         I was forced to use Vmware server for a year until I got
>         funding for
>         VCenter/ESXi on 2 new DL-360 G5
>         hosts and a SAN.
>
>         The tradeoff, is that VCenter provides better use of RAM,  VM
>         Templates,
>         thin provisioned disk that
>         don't severely fragment the NFTS file system,  and of course with
>         Enterprise edition you get Vmotion
>         and Storage Vmotion that allow you to move the machine to a
>         new host, or
>         move the storage to
>         a new volume without shutting it down.
>
>         Since a VM move/copy may take 2 to 6 hours or more,  the
>         Storage Vmotion
>         feature will save a lot
>         of downtime, as you can do that while the machine is running
>         under light
>         load.
>
>         For backup on Vmware Server I have some scripts that automate the
>         shutdown, copy,  zip, and restart
>         of the VM.   However in practice ( with 4 hosts and 12 VM's )
>          I found
>         that one or more scripts/backups
>         failed every day.  The VM's were down for 3 or 4 hours each
>         for the
>         copy,  and we had to stagger
>         the copies.  A single backup would also tie up the Vmware
>         Server host's
>         SATA disk so much that the
>         other VM's would be unresponsive.   If you want these scripts
>         let me
>         know off-line.
>
>         So basically this strategy with moderate size VM ( 10 to 40G
>         each ) just
>         didn't work in practice.
>
>         If you try to do the same using ghettoVCB I imaging the
>         problems would
>         be similar.   Also just getting a
>         command line prompt on ESXi voids your warrentee and support.
>          On top of
>         that,  standard tools are not
>         available ( only busybox ) and important files ( even crontab
>         ) are
>         overwritten at each boot - so anything
>         you configure is wiped out on reboot.
>
>         Yes, I've run some commands from ESXi command line,  but for
>         instance
>         the ghettoVCB script is
>         mostly parsing text configuration files, and running commands
>
>         Sample portion of ghettoVCB:
>
>         for VM_NAME in `cat "${VM_INPUT}" | sed '/^$/d' | sed -e
>         's/^[[:blank:]]*//;s/[[:blank:]]*$//'`;
>                do
>                VM_ID=`grep -E "\"${VM_NAME}\"" /tmp/vms_list | awk -F ";"
>         '{print $1}' | sed 's/"//g'`
>
>         This depends on the config file text format of that version of
>         ESX,  and
>         overall is a very fragile way
>         of controlling ESX.   I think you would have just as many
>         problems with
>         this script
>         ( and indeed the comments on the forums agree )
>
>         If your running development or production on these machines,
>          you really
>         should invest in VCenter
>         for all the advantages above.
>
>         If you get the VMware Essentials Plus package,  it includes a
>         supported
>         "Disaster Recovery" program
>         that will do what you want.     This includes VCenter,  gives you
>         template support,  and the DR program
>         for something like $2995 ( for up to 3 hosts with 2 CPU's each
>         ,  and a
>         free copy of Vsphere Essentials
>         server, and the DR program )
>
>         http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere/buy/editions_comparison.html
>         http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere/buy/overview.html
>
>         So spending a week setting up ghettoVCB, and then futzing with
>         it,  will
>         already cost
>         more than buying Essentials Plus.   Plus  you will have
>         template support
>         to help manage
>         your VM rollouts.
>
>         Also,  I found that generally if you present the options to
>         management
>         with costs and reliability explained it is
>         usually possible to get funding,  because it just make sense,
>          while
>         spending a week of your time to
>         get an unreliable solution does not make sense.
>
>         Lee
>
>         --
>         "Between subtle shading and the absence of light lies the
>         nuance of iqlusion..."  - Kryptos
>
>         Lee Marzke,  lee@marzke.net <mailto:lee@marzke.net>  
>         http://marzke.net/lee/
>         IT Consultant, VMware, VCenter, SAN storage, infrastructure, SW CM
>         +1 800-393-5217  office         +1 484-348-2230               fax
>         +1 610-564-4932  cell           sip://8003935217@4aero.com
>         <mailto:8003935217@4aero.com>    VOIP
>
>
>
>         ___________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> Philadelphia Linux Users Group         --        http://www.phillylinux.org
> Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
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>   


-- 
"Between subtle shading and the absence of light lies the nuance of iqlusion..."  - Kryptos

Lee Marzke,  lee@marzke.net   http://marzke.net/lee/
IT Consultant, VMware, VCenter, SAN storage, infrastructure, SW CM
+1 800-393-5217  office         +1 484-348-2230               fax
+1 610-564-4932  cell           sip://8003935217@4aero.com    VOIP



___________________________________________________________________________
Philadelphia Linux Users Group         --        http://www.phillylinux.org
Announcements - http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-announce
General Discussion  --   http://lists.phillylinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug